Tree of Savior Forum

UPDATED: For the love of God—IMC get around to this

Edit: Additional details appended at the end of the issue due to @STAFF_Ethan improperly dismissing it. No hard feelings, and I respect all you have done for myself and the community in the past, but you have misunderstood the issue in this thread.

@STAFF_Ethan The issue has nothing to do with anything you mentioned. The issue concerns monsters becoming unresponsive and permanently stuck—not moving, not attacking, and not doing anything at all because of the bug surrounding how converted monsters do not refresh their target after a successful conversion.


Fellow Paladins: please bump this topic by posting your experiences with this issue—videos are especially welcome and I will add them to the original post with credits. There are a ton of bugs with Conversion, but let’s finally get at least this one issue with it fixed.

Original post:

This bug has existed as long as the Paladin has, and it seriously needs addressed. This isn’t Beta anymore and there are no excuses for long neglected and ignored issues like this, especially when they have been reported before. I came back after a hiatus to see if the character is playable yet by this bug being addressed and, lo, it is not. Of course. IMC, this is the reason myself and a lot of other players have abandoned you. Fix your bugs.

Bug Description: The Paladin skill “Conversion” can result in converted enemies becoming “locked” in place, unable to perform any actions. This issue occurs when an already friendly converted enemy (henceforth to be known as your “minion”) engages with the enemy you are attempting to convert. If you successfully convert an enemy while it holds aggro to your minion then both minions will forever be unresponsive. This is because both minions have lost the ability to fight their target, but still hold aggro to each other. As the target is no longer hostile, but the minions are engaged with each other, nothing happens and the minions will not follow around the map, change targets or attack anything at all, etc. etc. This is proven because when you are able to lure hostile enemies to your locked minions, and kill one of your minions in this manner, then the other one will finally become responsive as their “target” has died.

This is an especially troublesome bug when your build is centralized around building an army. If your other minions engage before you can convert the enemy, then you must stop everything and not attack lest your entire team become frozen.

Steps to reproduce the issue :

  1. Successfully convert an enemy. This will be called your “minion.”
  2. Allow your minion to aggro an enemy.
  3. Attempt to convert the enemy that your minion has mutual aggro with.
  4. If the conversion is successful, note that both of your minions are now “stuck” and will not follow you around, attack, or be otherwise responsive in any fashion toward you or their surroundings. They are locked into battle with each other but, because they are friendly to each other, they cannot resolve the battle state.

Expected Result: Successful conversions reset all current aggro flags. After the conversion has been completed, all targets are dropped/cleared and all “enemies” who are engaged with the newly converted monster also have their targets cleared. This prevents minions from becoming “locked” who are actively engaged, but also prevents a similar reaction from newly converted enemies as they will also disengage any targets they once had—mutual disengagement. Additionally, all minion damage and hits should count toward the Conversion process and be counted as the player’s damage as it does already in other areas of the game. (Boss fights etc.)


Edit: Step-by-step video reproduction with live descriptions of the steps and symptoms. Additional proof at the end of the video confirming the issue to be due to improper combat flags being attributed to monsters now defined as allies.


Video reproduction provided by @Ayalon within this thread.


Video reproduction by @mrshadowccg from an earlier submission of this issue.


Notable quotes FROM OVER A YEAR AGO THAT STILL APPLY:

Here are some other and more recent snippets.

Ask ANY Paladin about Conversion and their reply will contain the fact that it is completely buggy. This particular issue, though, is one of the most annoying of all of the bugs relating to Conversion because it can take hours to set up your minions, and it only takes seconds for them to become all frozen forever because of this bug, making your entire time investment wasted.

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Excellent post, but I got sad news for you!

IMC does not care!

At most, you will get a [Resolved] for your efforts.

hueu´hue

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please do not poison the hope of others with your negative bs…


This seems to be an AI problem where mob doesn’t know what to do next… I guess…

all I can do for you TC is @STAFF_John @STAFF_Ethan @STAFF_Max @STAFF_Yuri

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Get a load from thid guy

In this case it is so hard to not lose hope… This bug is here since like the beginning and there are multiply topics about it and still no fix…

I don’t rly know how these things work but I feel like it shouldn’t even be a hard to fix thing.

It should be an ai problem as you said. They can’t lose the aggro on each other.

…and then I could list other problems like I can’t use it in some dungeons because the dungeon can’t be finished if I do… I could actually ruin dungeon runs for others…

Or it is so fun that in Siauliai mission converted monsters explode like normal monsters when you finished the task in a room…

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They just -now- are figuring out skill animations take too long and fixed some of them. What really needs to happen is a better UI for “pets” in general but that’s honestly asking for too much from this company. At least at some point they fixed the mobs from being literally retarded after conversion and barely moving so there’s that.

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I actually think Converted mobs have the best ai out of zombies and pets and dunno what else (I only tried these)… When you actually manage to make your little army they are doing their job so nicely… I love to watch them killing and stuff… They can have nicer movespeed than zombies…they attack nicely…use skills… some buffs you…or debuffs the enemy…they look for heal tiles…etc. Also if Oracle’s Change is not a bugged skill from the beginning too you can make quite strong mobs for urself…
…but then there is this bug and it makes it too much of a hassle like this and it just ruins everything…

Btw the conversion attribute at least got fixed too lately… and I rly don’t understand when they did that why they didn’t fix this too…

Hello @Darkon,

First of all, I wish you the best for 2017! :slight_smile:

Thank you for the detailed post and I do understand your frustration at the ‘Converted’ monsters being not as useful as you might have expected.

I have had a lengthy conversation with the dev in charge of skill balancing etc and it seems as if ‘converted’ monsters being a tad ‘slow’ is something that was intended.

In other words, while we know that there are many buggy skills, this isn’t one of them. As for whether it will stay this way… no clue on my end either.

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I believe there’s a difference between the mobs being intentionally made slow to respond and simply getting permanently stuck in the place where they were converted.

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@STAFF_Ethan
They are not slow they get stucked because if an already converted monster starts to fight with a monster that you just about to convert after it was converted too they can’t attack each other anymore but they can’t lose aggro against each other either…so they are just look at each other… No way that’s intended.

So you say this is intended? They are just standing there doing nothing… I moved away from them so you can see they don’t teleport to me either… It was 15 minutes ago and they are still there…

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Literally retarded like I said and if the guy says it was intended then sure seems like they wanted the AI to be slow and dumb. On launch I was a Paladin and going to do the whole Oracle convert mob thing too. Thank goodness IMC got into one little fight and I got scared so I moved into my auntie and uncle’s at Bel Air.

@STAFF_Ethan Thanks for the clarity though I actually appreciate the transparency here.

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@STAFF_Ethan

It is exactly like Ayalon showed in the video—this issue is not a matter of speed, or versatility, it is an issue that is a bug with converted monster AI becoming completely broken.

As I stated within the issue itself, this is due to converted enemies improperly retaining an aggressive stance to a target that can no longer be “targeted,” resulting in the unit becoming perpetually locked into a battle that cannot resolve.

The units, as shown in the Ayalon’s video, do nothing at all. Forever.

So while I appreciate the response, there must have been some miscommunication and I urge you to report the issue as it has been stated above because there is no denying that is a bug—not a feature.

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I don’t really think it’s a miscommunication. The developer who made this skill and functionality is clearly happy and proud of how it works. They are so happy about making a literally useless skill causing thousands of people like myself to quit playing. It would be infinitely more useful if the skill would not convert the mob and just inflict a status debuff on attacks making the mob retarded and not do anything. That would solve the conversion problem for good and I suggest it since this person is so proud of the skill’s intended use and performance.

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I rly don’t know what’s more scary… that they wanna tell me it is intended or that it looks like they didn’t even know about this bug even if it was reported multiply times… … but for the later at least there would be still some hope… it’s just annoying…

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huehuehue

ethan got imc’ed

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Many weird stuff in TOS are fully intended and not a bug…once upon a time party loot distribution is calculated on DPS contribution and not equal chance…meaning healers and supports don’t get much loot. Forums was on fire until devs change it :sparkles:

It’s IMC’s way of saying “yeah, this skill is sh*t. don’t get this”.

ORRRRRRRRRR

“hey, try this skill. sounds interesting. we have skill reset in tp shop anyways. xoxo”

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power of monie~

if u rich enough to buy virtual dress, u are rich enough to buy reset

huehuehue~

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Wah, staff members can get IMC’ed too?
What is Tree of Forums coming to?
2017 is clearly a move towards stormy uncharted waters…

huehue

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ai-pet/controlled-mob for mmo is risky move

its fun and great idea for mmo to bring alot of pet/minion to battle, but as far as i know, ai coding is far from usable yet for year 2017.

ai pet/minion will remain as a bug/feature until year 2030.

sorry ethan, ur dev have imc’ed u.

ai coding has to check for too many conditions, data relay server/client side checking… its simply not feasible yet for tos.
(it could, tos would be the best game if they able to deliver good pet/minion ai, but past 10months teaches us, imc is not as capable yet.)

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