Tree of Savior Forum

[MAJOR COMPLAINT] Market now requires cash to use + trading removed

Old thread that was locked due to a derail, silly how easily threads can be flagged to oblivion with this system.


Most recent kTest updates:

  1. Buy-in shops have been removed.
  2. Auction house now costs TP (your equivalent of i-coins) to use. Limited duration + you must pay for extending the duration - “The minimum is 3 hours, with 24, 72 and 120 hours. It costs 2, 4, 6 and 8 TP per item listed.”
  3. Personal trade has been removed.
  4. New: Market tax increased to 30%
    (View the changes here)

Meaning - the only way you can trade now is if you use real cash.

IMC, with all due respect, this is one of the worst possible things you could ever do to what was potentially a very promising game. Not only have you betrayed the trust of people by promising that it won’t be p2w, you have brought it to another level by limiting the ONLY way you can transact to being a cash shop feature.

Even other p2w games do not do these - yes, they limit the number of items you can list or have a premium feature, but there is never an outright ban on normal trade or other methods to avoid using the auction house.

This also makes me very uncomfortable - it shows that IMC is willing to even contemplate the most extreme forms of p2w. I don’t know if it is Nexon forcing you to do this, but I certainly hope for it to be changed soon. It is the weekend and hopefully we’ll see some better news next week.

Also, whenever something that is straightforwardly bad for the game comes up, there will always still be white knights defending it no matter how silly it seems. So I’ll preliminarily address some of their anticipated arguments to get it out of the way:

  1. This isn’t p2w! It is simply an optional game feature. You have no idea what you are talking about

It is. The auction house is a basic feature of trading that many other games have. It rejuvenates the economy, makes sure that people are supplied with the items they demand and overall facilitates the enjoyment of the game. So many people felt unmotivated to play with iCBT marketplace kept going down/bugged. Furthermore, you would have a stronger argument if they didn’t limit personal trade, but the fact is that they did. The obvious intention is to make it so that people have no choice but to spend money if they want to participate in the economy in any serious manner. There is no other non-cash alternative offered at all.

  1. The developers need to make money somehow.

There are plenty of other ways to make money in a scrupulous way that doesn’t piss off half your player base. Furthermore, even if you accept p2w, at the very least try not to use such an extreme form of p2w by limiting an essential feature to ONLY being a cash-only option.

  1. Cry more, I love your salty tears you ■■■■■■.

Not an argument. If your only complaint is that people like to complain, surprise surprise, people complain when they are actually care deeply about the game and genuinely want it to improve and be the best possible game it can be for the coming years. Yeah, there are probably people who whine for trivial reasons like silly things like Cleric heels being ugly, but feedback is necessary to improve the game.

  1. TP regenerates

Well, your wallet won’t be regenerating TP during official release I’m afraid.

  1. This won’t happen to us. IMC is our publisher and it’s only because NEXON is forcing them to do it over in Korea.

Firstly, there’s no guarantee that they won’t do this. Secondly, we don’t know if Nexon is responsible for this. Thirdly, even if it won’t happen to us, we shouldn’t approve of it happening somewhere else to Koreans. We’re all players of this game and we should stick up for one another.

  1. Other Korean games do it too.

No excuse. TOS is better than that. Or at least it is trying to be I hope, rather than one of the others in the trash pile.

  1. It’s a bug, you’re worrying over nothing. Paranoia as usual.

Nope, it is explicitly in the patch notes.

  1. It is a good change. Prevents botters and goldsellers.

Now this I can acknowledge. However, there are other ways to do this without gimping your playerbase. I’m sure whoever thought of this must be clapping themselves on their back - not only did I figure a way to earn tons of money, I even resolved the gold seller issue. Uh, no.

And let’s consider the detriments that this new feature would bring.

  • Completely destroy the market for low end items. Nobody in their right mind would list for items like Alch pots that aren’t worth the real money invested.
  • Drive away and alienate a huge portion of the player base. I suspect this will be a deal breaker for many people. Nobody wants to pay for what they expect is a simple and basic game feature
  • Ruin the economy: The economy is an important feature of any game that needs to be unencumbered with low barriers to entry. If you want your game to fall apart due to stagnation after 6 months because nobody can trade items and sell ■■■■ they don’t want, go ahead.
  • Demand side problems: People can’t get the stuff they actually need. You’ve even closed off personal trade.
  • Other p2w features: If they are capable of making an extreme form of p2w like this, I don’t want to imagine what else they are willing to do.
  • Importance of trade: Trading is central to any MMO. There are many reasons why people would trade - be it social interaction, avoiding tax, helping their friends and guildies, and just contributing to a vibrant and healthy economy in general. It is completely unacceptable to remove this.
  • Shaken confidence: Game developers and Kim Hakkyu envisioned that this will be a ‘neo-classic’ game with a refreshing change from the gazillion boring generic p2w MMOs, bringing back meaning to what old MMOs really meant. Obviously this game has many problems and hasn’t quite brought back our classic MMO feels, but still, it’s trying and it has its own merits. We were promised balanced cash feature, so I think it is only fair that you actually live up to that promise.

It is December, it is still too early for April Fools. Me and many others have been faithfully following since Project R1 and have high hopes, and still stick to the game even though there are many glaring problems.

Don’t let the dream be dead.

@STAFF_John @GM_Erick


Pay to use auction house for a limited time… are you serious?! IMC no. This is game breaking. Please say it’s just Nexon and we won’t see this in the International version.


Will TP Still regenerate during full release ?

I remember PSO2 somehow…
On PSO2…

-Trade is only possible if BOTH players trading are premium users.

-While everyone can access the Market on the Visphone and buy items.
They cannot put up their items for sale in the Market unless they are Premium User
If they used a “My Shop Pass” This pass can be earned from the FUN Scratch which uses FUN Points.
Basically if you are lucky with RNG then you get a My Shop Pass.

-Weapons and Units at 10★ Rarity and up need a “Weapon Pass” or “Unit Pass” of that rarity, Which you can only get if you are a Premium User. Basically as a premium user, What you do is… You Recycle your unwanted Rare Weapon or Unit to the Recycle Shop into a Weapon or Unit Pass. Which you can use to buy another Weapon or Unit with that Pass.

-There is a way to get a 12★ Weapon Pass once for your account by doing something in the game…

I am thinking… maybe this is their version of the PSO2 Market…


hope they change this, or this game will have some problems


oh, so there will be some serious premium stuff, i really wanted to play this game =/

What if TP wasn’t going to be the same thing as iCoins (you would buy with money) ?
If that is the case, it might actually be a good thing.

I tend to dislike games where the competitivity revolves around grinding and rich players getting richer, only logging to buy and sell stuff (I’m not even talking about gold farmers here).

A better way to do this might be to set a fixed amount of items you can put up on the markets.
My only concern would be for buying potions, and for that you could add a potion shop.

So If TP is not a currency you can buy using real money (because that would mean people with money would have an advantage over normal players), then this change might be good. It forbids player to make to much in game money just by buying and selling stuff, and hinders gold farmers / bots a lot.

Wait and see.

I highly doubt TP will regenerate on release. TP is a cash currency.

And if it did, the BIG QUESTION is why the hell there is even such a system in the first place. All it does is make it slightly more annoying and troublesome to participate in the auctionhouse. And since it is available to gold sellers, then it doesn’t even stop the gold seller issue.

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Well, lets start with the most obvious stuff, Korean version is under a publisher (Nexon), we are directly under the Dev (IMC) just by this we can figure that its Nexon policy there to make that way, not IMC as far as i am concerned.

Now on one of the point outs you posted:

This is the basic of human beings, now take a look at this discussion on Steam (for a completely different game) and tell me when people don’t complain.

Hi your point is already addressed under point 5.

As for the steam thread you linked me, that’s just someone who is misguided because they didn’t know how to optimize their disk space to correspond to new patches, and they foolishly suggested less updates instead of a more sensible solution (like implementing a better way to install patches). Completely different the highly serious and game-changing issue we have here.

I hope you will realize the severity of the problem and not pretend it will go away simply by staying silent.

you only regen TP if you have less than 10, i wouldnt be surprised to see that still being the case for OBT.
and people are speculating that the market change and the fact that player to player trades being removed is purely for testing the new market, or they are reworking the player to player trade.

either way, untill any of this acctually makes it into OBT you guys need to calm down.
its called a test server for a reason

Yes exactly spend enough cash = tycoon of trading house then we all have to buy good gears only from that guy

As far as i know on an old post, don’t ask me where it is, probably is buried somewhere or the system already deleted, IMC stated that they would try to make the game on this side not P2W and would listen to the players, as of actual situation on our side, i can’t confirm how much of that is or will be true since most of our bug reports seem to pass by and never be addressed, so until next CBT i will refrain from confirm or deny this kind of stuff since i can’t say for sure if they will do something about the actual game, but i do get where you come from with this post, indeed its not a nice way to do business, it may work on Asia but not here.

I am thinking…
Maybe if TP regenerates over time even on Full Release…
Then maybe this is their equivalent of the “FUN Points” of PSO2.
After all, you can earn a “My Shop Pass” with FUN Points and Luck with RNG.

I am now also thinking this might be one of the Factors why PSO2 will not go to the west…
Because of this kind of Market…

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Also, there seems to be many posts asking us not to panic, to wait and see.

I don’t really get it. What is the exact benefit of delaying the complaint till later?

Scenario 1: Wait and see. Sh1t happens. Then the sh1tstorm occurs. Protest then occurs.
Scenario 2: Protest in advance. Staff see, and quickly revert the changes. Sh1tstorm averted.

There is no difference between withholding the complains and waiting for it to actually happen. It is better to highlight the issue for visibility in the first place the moment IMC even thinks to consider implementing it.

To me, the very fact that IMC can EVEN contemplate such a drastic measure is already shocking to me. It is a matter of principle.


Using the market shouldn’t be based on luck, rng or money or whatever else. Just let us use the market that’s what’s it’s for. Also if we can’t trade… do they expect guild leaders to earn all of their money to create a guild all by themselves? Part of being in a guild is helping each other by trading stuff with guild members as well.

If this is supposed to be some kind of anti bot/goldseller prevention this is a terrible idea an needs to be thought over.

If this is about getting cash for the company… rather than ruin the game why don’t they just make it b2p?

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Prevent is better than cure.

If Scenario 1 happened, i bet market will down for weeks to fix it.

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About B2P and P2P…
I am thinking only a select few could go that route and stay like that…
And those who tried usually eventually end up F2P anyway…

I remember even Guild Wars 2 is becoming Free 2 Play…
And this was a B2P Game.

It’s not surprising. I saw many games did this, Onigiri and PSO2 for example.
All equips are either self-found or market that only accessible if you have premium/cash currency.

So, Is Onigiri or PSO2 a P2W game? I don’t know, never heard anyone said that.

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Have anybody tested Alchemist awakening with trading disabled yet?
Selling alchemist potions and awakened items will be a pita.
Whats the point of Magnum Opus if you cannot trade items you get from it?

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no its called console game