Tree of Savior Forum

[MAJOR COMPLAINT] Market now requires cash to use

Most recent kTest updates:

  1. Buy-in shops have been removed.
  2. Auction house now costs TP (your equivalent of i-coins) to use. Limited duration + you must pay for extending the duration - “The minimum is 3 hours, with 24, 72 and 120 hours. It costs 2, 4, 6 and 8 TP per item listed.”
  3. Personal trade has been removed.
    (View the changes here)

Meaning - the only way you can trade now is if you use real cash.

IMC, with all due respect, this is one of the worst possible things you could ever do to what was potentially a very promising game. Not only have you betrayed the trust of people by promising that it won’t be p2w, you have brought it to another level by limiting the ONLY way you can transact to being a cash shop feature.

Even other p2w games do not do these - yes, they limit the number of items you can list or have a premium feature, but there is never an outright ban on normal trade or other methods to avoid using the auction house.

This also makes me very uncomfortable - it shows that IMC is willing to even contemplate the most extreme forms of p2w. I don’t know if it is Nexon forcing you to do this, but I certainly hope for it to be changed soon. It is the weekend and hopefully we’ll see some better news next week.

Also, whenever something that is straightforwardly bad for the game comes up, there will always still be white knights defending it no matter how silly it seems. So I’ll preliminarily address some of their anticipated arguments to get it out of the way:

  1. This isn’t p2w! It is simply an optional game feature. You have no idea what you are talking about

It is. The auction house is a basic feature of trading that many other games have. It rejuvenates the economy, makes sure that people are supplied with the items they demand and overall facilitates the enjoyment of the game. So many people felt unmotivated to play with iCBT marketplace kept going down/bugged. Furthermore, you would have a stronger argument if they didn’t limit personal trade, but the fact is that they did. The obvious intention is to make it so that people have no choice but to spend money if they want to participate in the economy in any serious manner. There is no other non-cash alternative offered at all.

  1. The developers need to make money somehow.

There are plenty of other ways to make money in a scrupulous way that doesn’t piss off half your player base. Furthermore, even if you accept p2w, at the very least try not to use such an extreme form of p2w by limiting an essential feature to ONLY being a cash-only option.

  1. Cry more, I love your salty tears you ■■■■■■.

Not an argument. If your only complaint is that people like to complain, surprise surprise, people complain when they are actually care deeply about the game and genuinely want it to improve and be the best possible game it can be for the coming years. Yeah, there are probably people who whine for trivial reasons like silly things like Cleric heels being ugly, but feedback is necessary to improve the game.

  1. TP regenerates

Well, your wallet won’t be regenerating TP during official release I’m afraid.

  1. This won’t happen to us. IMC is our publisher and it’s only because NEXON is forcing them to do it over it in Korea.

Firstly, there’s no guarantee that they won’t do this. Secondly, we don’t know if Nexon is responsible for this. Thirdly, even if it won’t happen to us, we shouldn’t approve of it happening somewhere else to Koreans. We’re all players of this game and we should stick up for one another.

  1. Other Korean games do it too.

No excuse. TOS is better than that. Or at least it is trying to be I hope, rather than one of the others in the trash pile.

  1. It’s a bug, you’re worrying over nothing. Paranoia as usual.

Nope, it is explicitly in the patch notes.

  1. It is a good change. Prevents botters and goldsellers.

Now this I can acknowledge. However, there are other ways to do this without gimping your playerbase. I’m sure whoever thought of this must be clapping themselves on their back - not only did I figure a way to earn tons of money, I even resolved the gold seller issue. Uh, no.

And let’s consider the detriments that this new feature would bring.

  • Completely destroy the market for low end items. Nobody in their right mind would list for items like Alch pots that aren’t worth the real money invested.
  • Drive away and alienate a huge portion of the player base. I suspect this will be a deal breaker for many people. Nobody wants to pay for what they expect is a simple and basic game feature
  • Ruin the economy: The economy is an important feature of any game that needs to be unencumbered with low barriers to entry. If you want your game to fall apart due to stagnation after 6 months because nobody can trade items and sell ■■■■ they don’t want.
  • Demand side problems: People can’t get the stuff they actually need. You’ve even closed off personal trade.
  • Other p2w features: If they are capable of making an extreme form of p2w like this, I don’t want to imagine what else they are willing to do.
  • Shaken confidence: Game developers and Kim Hakkyu envisioned that this will be a ‘neo-classic’ game with a refreshing change from the gazillion boring generic p2w MMOs, bringing back meaning to what old MMOs really meant. Obviously this game has many problems and hasn’t quite brought back our classic MMO fields, but still, it’s trying and it has its own merits. We were promised balanced cash feature, so I think it is only fair that you actually live up to that promise.

It is December, it is still too early for April’s fools. Me and many others have been faithfully following since Project R1 and have high hopes, and still stick to the game even though there are many glaring problems.

Don’t let the dream be dead.

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I think you are overreacting a little bit. kOBT haven’t even started yet and you do not know what will be implemented in the cash shop or what not. For all we know, this could just be on the test server for testing purposes. So I don’t think it is time to cry the sky is falling yet.

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If you have TP less than 10, the system will add 1 per 2 hours for you for free.

This is probably nexon only though (look at maple reboot…same thing happen, no player trade in there as well)

Oh now THAT’S a bit of new information.

It happened in KMS too? I guess @Spadow would know oε o

…But so do you, cause you just told us. But it’s still fun to call Spadow in here.

So basically this IS partly Nexon KR’s paranoid initiative for a good market… Oh boy.

Very well put, I was going to complain about this myself, if it is indeed something they are even contemplating as an option it needs to be taken off the table NOW.
Let me be clear I’ve been looking forward to this game like many people for over a year, however if anything this overtly p2w is attached to the game I will not play it and will not care. It would be unfortunate as the game has a lot I do like, but I won’t stand for this type of crap and like you stated above, quite a lot of players are in the same boat.

If anything like this is ever introduced in patch notes it needs to clearly state (as far as I can tell it didn’t) that this is to test X other feature and is not an intended choice for the game itself at all.

@maruthontour 1 per 2 hours is trash, even if this regenates while offline this means people need to do one of two things
1)Juggle their listing time - this is UNFUN and the only reason any developer uses these mechanics (see: mobile games) is to annoy customers into purchases. It’s not okay.
2)That’s still not really that much, if I’m an alchemist in a normal day I might sell a huge batch of SP pots, HP pots and maybe another specific pot I make (Magic Amp for example). If I’m selling them at the lowest tier that’s 6TP/12 daily TP, The rest presumably to revive stones.

Given a few other stealthy fixes it drops all of our confidence in both the publisher for potentially asking for the change and the developer for obliging.

We’ll see if this ends up in kOBT though which will be the real pincher.

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I think you’re jumping to conclusions too fast. I agree with you, I hope it isn’t what it seems like. But let’s wait and see before we start accusing IMC of betraying the trust of the people. :wink:

And @Elenaya
Better to be safe than sorry. We need to show that it is unacceptable to even try this.

@maruthontour
Refer to point 4

@merru
Refer to point 5

General comment: I agree that it is still early to lodge a complaint. But the earlier the better because it is such an important change. I am hoping for good news on Mon. All the best.

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Thank you for making this wonderful post.

Now this is something so huge and can be game breaking for a LOT of people, that needs to be addressed to us asap from IMC games.
This is inexcusable for any MMO standards and is such a big change that everyone is affect by it. It such a big change that it could make this game “Dead on Arrival”. I hate being doom and gloom, but if this isn’t addressed soon and this si how ToS is going, you won’t be seeing me play.

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They intentional removed trading and implemented(CODED) a feature that makes the Auction house cost TP/iCoins to sell items for testing? You can’t be serious to think that this is just for testing, you better pray that this feature doesn’t come to the international release.

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If it is serious, we will call for petition to boikot any server with this feature.

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Great post. I definitely agree, this is something that can easily ruin the whole game.

One thing that I would like to add though, by removing trading, you are actually penalized for playing with friends. One thing my friends and I do all the time is trade drops we get. If one of us gets an item that we can’t use, such as a recipe for a weapon we don’t use, we can simply give it to a friend who does. By removing player trading, we can’t do this anymore, so there is a lot less incentive to play with friends.
The worst part about it though is that it means if you are looking for a specific item, playing with a party at all significantly lowers the chance that you’ll get the item you want. For example, I spent a long time grinding a weapon recipe that I wanted with a friend, and after several hours, it dropped for them and they gave it to me. If trading was removed, my friend would have been unable to give me the recipe. This means that if I play with my friend, the chance that I will get the item that I want is cut in half, and more friends would penalize me even more.

Being unable to help friends out by making it impossible to give items is one thing, but penalizing players for playing with friends is just a terrible decision.

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So how much does one IP cost?

When it s something like a cent or 10.
It wouldnt matter much, people still will use this.

But they wont use it for all the TRASH items, just for good ones.
And scammers wont put stupid items up for noobs to buy.

I actually see no point to worry, if the price is low.
Good idea to make money and prevent some issues AND to waste some of the possible free IP.

What is the point of Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game (MMORPG) if you can’t trade in the first place.

Open your eyes. If they can do it in Korea, do you think they will not implement it in the international version? Get real guys.

Better play single player game like Skyrim or Fallout if you want to trade only with NPCs.

It is better to overreacting then being dead silence since being silence contribute nothing.

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Hope you’re ready for every alchemist to not sell anything or put up everything for stupidly high price. Oh and not being able to buy materials that you need to finish that recipe.

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If you stay silent be sure it will be implemented. Just like devs didn’t care about exploits at all until they were made public and destroyed the game.

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This particular change is in the Korean version. This does not necessarily mean that this will be in the International version. They are both different.

The game is published by Nexon Korea and therefore the publisher can request changes in the game. This could be the case for this situation.

Its still better to inform people and cry out as this COULD happen to us than to be quiet and hope this doesn’t happen to us. We are all beings that play this game so we should cry out in hopes that it doesn’t happen to us AND our Korean counterparts.

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Since people are failing to read. This post up til the LINE is a response to Luculyia about Korean MAPLE STORY. Not Tree of Savior. Everything below the line is what I think about the recent TREE OF SAVIOR update. Thanks to anyone that was able to read.

See with KMS it was very different. It was a hugely welcomed update, as they had one server they did the following to:

  1. Cash shop only sold cosmetics.
  2. The p2w items from the other servers are only sold in-game through mesos.
  3. 0 player trading, so no way at all to p2w or buy gold from gold sellers.
  4. Gear pertaining to you class dropped, no other gear.
  5. Drops rates increased by a lot.

People loved the update, though it was a harder server, and eventually the server got abandoned because it turns out people prefer their p2w stuff on the other servers.

That being said, it was actually a very intuitive update for players that wanted to be competitive without spending money and Nexon NA actually adopted the patch, and is very popular recently.

This in no way applies to Tree of Savior due to the loot system, etc. Nexon doing this update for KMS doesn’t relate at all to Tree of Savior.


THIS PART RIGHT HERE IS ABOUT TREE OF SAVIOR, INCASE SOMEONE FAILED TO READ THE LARGE TEXT ABOVE.

Now for my 2 cents:

  1. Having no player trading is OK. Who actually trades anyway these days? Trading is usually done to share gear between friends, and that is honestly the biggest downfall. But even that’s not a big deal since you can only trade recipes and hats and materials only once in ToS to begin with, before it’s locked (before this update obviously). Most trading in MMO’s is done through mail (not available in ToS), player vending shops (no longer available so it doesn’t pertain to ToS anymore), or the market place. The upside is gold sellers can not sell gold to players via trading or mail.

  2. The market place change is something I was really confused by. The way they did it is so weird and bad. Having a market place with restrictions for f2p players is very common, usually through higher taxes and less slots than a player that pays a sub or premium service. This is a very common thing in f2p MMO’s, so why anyone is surprised or upset with this system is beyond me. But I can agree the implementation is so very weird and bad. They might as well scrap the entire idea since gold sellers can use the auction house to sell gold still.

However, the TP marketplace change means that you get slots every 2 hrs to sell stuff. For the average player this isn’t a big deal. For the player that wishes to make money off the marketplace, this is a huge deal. If they add a premium service/sub service to remove these restrictions and also raise the limit to the amount of TP you can have capped, I think it would be OK.

EDIT:

Adding this bit:

  1. Aside from the marketplace change being very odd and badly implemented, they should at the very least add shared guild storage.
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Most of people are here waiting for MMORPG. If they turn TOS into singleplayer/cooperative hat farm simulator I will quit. I believe I am not alone.

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