Hey ya! Welcome to my little space here on the forums.
Nameās ZeroFoxGiven from SEA-Telsiai. Iām a CataGoon-turned-HopGoon.
Iāve noticed there isnāt any interest regarding non-Murm/Fencer foot soldier PVP builds here (I miss @sttr413ās Corsair3 vids ) so I thought Iād share my experience as a HopGoon, mainly in PVP.
Browse through and enjoy!
##Sections
Just click on any links below to be directed to each section or keep scrolling down to start from the beginning.
If you have questions related to my build or requests for skill tests, please feel free to respond to this thread.
For more TOS-related vids, please feel free to check out my Youtube channel:
Itās still in its infancy as Iāve only resumed uploading recently but Iām planning to upload more interesting stuff from the game besides these PVP vids. Thanks!
ps Yes, I once was a Catagoon, and Iāll always be at heart.
[details=Why Sword3 (and not meta PelHopDop)?]PelHopDop is really good in PVE. Itās no surprise why itās the meta for the PVE Goon build.
I went Sword C3 primarily because:
Max Restrain - most Hoplite and Dragoon skills are multihits which means more chances for Restrain to proc. This is great for stunlocking enemies while I cycle through my skill rotation.
Max P. Barrier - while also useful for handling R8 content (so much knockdowns from these new monsters), it greatly helps you survive in PVP matches. A dead/down DPS swordsman build is no DPS swordsman build. Also, new attribute makes it nearly have 100% uptime.
I opted to lose some PVE necessities for more survivality in PVP.[/details]
[details=Why Hoplite (and not metaphract)?]Frankly, I got bored.
I must admit that Rush + Max Restrain is really, really good. You put two missile launchers (Dethrone) on that helicopter and it gets insanely better.
While I enjoyed playing my CataGoon since early access, the PVP routine started to feel repetitive to a point I started rolling an archer in hopes of making it my new main.
With the reset, and our guildās plan to start doing more guild stuff (ET, guild content, WB hunting, GvG), I figured Iād be able to do more as a Hoplite than as a Cata.
Spear Throw just beats Cata skills when it comes to handling mobs (PVE).
Spear Lunge with Goon skills does insane burst damage. Rarely has its use in PVP (since it gives the enemy a chance to avoid your next move or counter you), but itās really great in PVE.
Long Stride looks cool AF when used. Haha. Also, the knockdown goes through Safety Zone (I found that out myself and was really surprised).[/details]
[details=Why Dragoon (and not Fencer/Murm)?]It was an easy and somewhat forced decision for me because I already was a Dragoon with most of my attributes at lv.50. Plus, I already had the equipment except for the Geras which I made right before I resetted.
Fencer (specifically the PVP R5 Corsair variant), while really good in PVP, is mostly single-target burst (unless you hook 2-3 enemies together really close). I wanted AOE burst which Dethrone provides, and some range attack options which what Spear Throw and Dragontooth does.
Murmillo is always a good choice for foot swordie builds. Itās tanky and bursty with some AOE. Unfortunately, it has a disadvantage similar to Fencers - unless your combos or gap closers connect, the enemy can kite you. Also, itās not quite wanted in ET parties.
Dragoon C2ās kit includes short (Dragon Soar), medium (Serpentine), long (Dragontooth), and insanely long AOE (Dethrone) ranged damaging skills - all of which always comes handy depending on how near/far are you from the target without having to spend a few seconds closing that gap.[/details]
###What are the disadvantages of this build?
Not a lot of CC. Spear Throwās bind is by chance and its use in some situations may be limited. You only have two knockdown skills: Bash (requires you to be near the enemy; avoidable animation) and Long Stride (very high CD; very predictable/avoidable animation). Dethroneās bind and Restrain + Multihit skills will be your most reliable form of CC.
This Dragoon2 build isnāt the most optimal PVE-wise. Dopel1 Goon2s will outdamage you as long as they donāt get knocked down/away or interrupted. You donāt have access to Peltasta C1ās utility and passive block boost.
This Dragoon2 build isnāt the most optimal PVP-wise. At least one rank in Corsair will prove very useful in most PVP scenarios compared to having Spear Throw (Hop C3). Catagoon is the most optimal of all PVP Goon builds.
###Build - skills & stats
Note: I left 8 unspent skill points in Hop3 so you can choose from either Pierce or Synchro Thrusting. I went with Pierce but Iām considering resetting my skills in the near future to try and swap points from it to Synchro Thrusting due to how good the stats are on endgame shields + Transcendence + Strike bonus on plate users (which is what most of TBL players lately are).
Since this is a PVP/PVE hybrid, I went with stats that I think would utilize a shield-using build well.
98 points in CON (about 130 CON in total including bonuses by lv.330)
With untranscended Virtov set (no red gems), it gives me almost 40k HP (30k-ish inside TBL arena). With Emengard Shield + transcendence, I should easily break past 40k.
With armor magic enchantment and switching to Rhevisan set when needed, Iām able to survive most combos.
UPDATE: Please check https://treeofsavior.com/news/?n=920 for possible stat rework in the near future. Unless you have access to stat reset and are willing to use later on, follow the following stat build advice AT YOUR OWN RISK.
[details=Follow this at your own risk]Full DEX (meta) vs 1 STR : 1 DEX
My stats is full DEX (with some CON above) as it came from a CataGoon build which I resetted from. I also act as main tank in our ET party so that evasion boost helps me handle physical hits more.
If I were to fully focus on PVP though, I would not ignore STR and will likely go 1:1.
With the rise of high/full CON builds (especially on Wiz and Clerics) plus R8 gear and transcendence, lack of block penetration is something I always find problematic with my full DEX build.
Even if I tried stacking lots of block pen from gear, my hits would almost always get blocked half of the time by well-geared opponents. Itās like RNG with Dethrone.
Also, since weāre not archers, crit and evasion is almost useless against most TBL opponents.
[details=STR vs DEX notes]I can only speak for whatās viable in the gameās current state. Considering that there will likely be more ranks in the future (perhaps up to Rank 10), the meta may change. Another thing to consider is IMCās unpredictability when it comes to changing game mechanics for whatever reason.
Right now, due to insane damage scaling brought about by Transcendence (at lv.10 weapon damage is scaled to 550%) alongside headgear enchant and gem effects buff, STR has become useless in nearly any pAtk builds (Wugu might be an exemption).
If you compare STR and DEX (each invested point):
STR (Strength)
Increases min and max physical attack by 1. <ā overshadowed by gear
Increases critical attack by 1. <ā overshadowed by gear and almost useless right now since the value is flat and added at the end of the damage calculation
Increases block penetration by 1. <ā replaceable with high level yellow gems on gloves and some specific gear that increases this substat; some classes like Cata and Lancer have skills/attributes that makes investment in block pen unnnecessary
Increases weight limit by 5. <ā negligible
For every additional class rank, you receive a bonus of 10% STR. <ā this is nice, but it requires you to invest a significant amount of STR in the first place, losing points that are supposed to go into DEX
DEX (Dexterity)
Increases accuracy by 1. <ā mostly a PVP-centric substat
Increases critical hit chance by 1. <ā primary reason for getting DEX
Increases evasion by 1. <ā secondary reason for getting DEX; increases survivality
IMO the concept of Goon builds revolves around dishing out the most damage at the shortest amount of time (burst) since most of your skills have significant CDs. Having high crit rate helps since each crit hit has a +50% critical damage modifier.
As for evasion, I think Sword3 builds doesnāt need it that much since they have nearly 100% P. Barrier uptime. For Sword1 builds though, theyāll need evasion to avoid getting knocked down and losing DPS in the process.
This means that youāll want to focus on DEX, but at some point especially as you reach end game and have started gearing up, youāll notice its diminishing returns at which point youāll want to move towards adding more STR. Of course, youāll want a little CON to help with getting comboāed to death by magic mobs since you canāt dodge those.
I always went full DEX with my sword builds since they were made to do PVP as well but the case for pure PVE builds IMO should be different.[/details][/details]
###Equipment
NOTE: This is an unedited, outdated section. The Hunting Grounds update may have made this section out-of-date. Please take advice with caution.
Weapon
I think the most cost-efficient route would be Geras (since itās so great to farm using Spear Throw with it) until you can get hold of a 315 purple/orange or Solmiki. Give it trans lv.2-3 (donāt overdo it since youāll want to save shards for later - really bad system theyāve implemented there).
Off-hand (Shield)
Off-hand would be AFAIK Didel Tower Shield with 3 x lv.5-6 Red Gems. 315 purple shield gives very good mDef later on but only one gem slot. 315 orange or Solmiki is BIS.
2handed alternative
You can opt to focus on using a 2h spear, but I find having a shield the most flexible when it comes to handling different situations.
Misc weapon
Accessories (2 x bracelets, 1 x necklace)
For accessories, double Glass Bracelets is a good start (Iām still using mine even at lv.323). Phada might be BIS but I would miss G. Braceletās block pen bonus. For neck, Max Peta seems the BIS but feel free to get hold of any other cheap necklace that gives decent mDef.
Armor set
For armor set, go for any plate set you can afford. Nyx set (lv.170) from Hunting Grounds is a very good alternative to Virtov/Grynas for 220+.
This is a good boots as well for more mDef (thereās a lv.270 upgrade for it later on):
BIS is at least 3-pc Solmiki (Top, Bottom, Gloves) and Shade Greaves for shoes.
Gems
CAUTION: Due to upcoming stat rebalance, the following gem advice may not be viable soon. If you must use gems now, stick with lv.5 (or lv.6 if you donāt mind spending more).
Lv.6-7 Red Gems on both mainhand and offhand/shield. Yellow/monster gems on gloves. Blue gems on boots. Yellow on top and bottom. You can start using gems (and at which gem level) at 220+ gears depending on how long you intend to use that specific gear or how hard it is to get the replacement gear.
If you want to use lv.8 gems, I think itās best to put those into the BIS gear since theyāre really hard/expensive to get by, at least from my experience. Iām so poor.
Headgear enchants
pAtk and crit for headgear enchants. mDef is nice for situational switch use as well but not necessary.
###Tips & Strategies
All-around
Bash, albeit a rank 1 skill, will prove useful in a lot of situations both PVE and PVP. It may require good timing in some situations so practice makes perfect. In this build, it is the only knockdown skill you have besides Long Stride (which has crazy long CD). A properly chained Bash will allow you to isolate an enemy from other enemies and buy you time for skill CDs. Donāt hesitate to use it to save locked-down allies as well.
Temporarily equip a Durandal (Increases all Swordsman skill levels by 2; put in weapon switch slot or hotkey slot) when using Swordsman buffs. You can then switch back to your main weapon/shield to use Finestra if needed.
NOTE: Switching to a non-spear weapon will cancel the Finestra buff. Make sure the skillās not on CD when you try to switch to Durandal so you can rebuff it afterwards.
You can use Spear Throw near the edge of something blocking your way into another area to deal damage on monsters on the other side as long as theyāre within the skillās AOE. In TBL for example, you can use this while on the outer side of the enemy teamās wall to hit enemies on the inner side if theyāre near the wall.
My default damage rotation is: Spear Lunge > Serpentine > Dethrone > Dragon Soar > Spear Lunge > Dragontooth > Stabbing > Pierce/Synchro. Once everything goes on CD, your priority will be to always use Dethrone ONLY after Serpentine since itās just a 4s difference between their CDs (and Spear Lunge before both if CD allows).
Only Dragon Soar, being a Slash-type skill, doesnāt benefit from Spear Lunge yet it still does decent damage especially when under Serpentine debuff.
// more coming soon
PVP
You can use Hoplite C2ās Long Stride to knock enemy players out of Safety Zone.
Restrain + Multihit skills (Stabbing, Dragontooth, Dragon Soar, Spear Throw) is a good CC combo. Even if you wonāt be dealing damage on the enemy due to CC-immunity buffs, if needed donāt hesitate to use this CC combo to lock them in place until help arrives or their invulnerability buff goes down. This could also help you buy time when your core damaging skills like Serpentine and Dethrone is on CD.
Donāt use Spear Throw from a distance when youāre not sure if youāll be able to retrieve the Spear immediately. Not having the spear reduces your damage by 50% and wonāt allow you to use Spear Throw until picked up or it automatically returns after some time.
// more coming soon
PVE
// more coming soon
###Frequently asked questions
[details=Why didnāt you pick at least a circle in Corsair for Hook?][quote=āZeroFoxGiven, post:13, topic:344381ā]
Players who are aware how hook works can more than half of the time dodge it by jumping around or catching the Corsair offguard first, and a lot of players know how to spectate in-match now as well as use /memberinfo so youāll rarely be able to surprise them with it.
Hook has max 3 targets and IIRC (unless it was changed) will also consider pears, caltrops, pets and summons as targets - and thereās a lot of that in 5v5 and GvG.
If Corsair had other skills worthy to completely replace Spear Throw besides Hook, I wouldāve gone with picking at least a circle in it. Spear Throw is just too good to pass with its true triple multihit, bind attribute and spammability.
[ā¦] Itās also important to consider that Long Stride has a very long CD (nearly double that of Hook) [so it wonāt always be available when Hook is) and will knock enemies away from point of impact (even if theyāre hooked) [which makes it harder to followup with your damage skills].
[/quote][/details]
[details=Why go Hoplite C1 at rank 3 and not Swordsman C3 (and why Swordsman C3 only comes later at rank 6 after Hoplite C3)?][quote=āZeroFoxGiven, post:38, topic:342898ā]
I feel like with the way leveling now in this game goes, youād have an easier time going Hop3 as fast as possible due to Finestra, Stabbing and access to Spear Throw which by lv.170 (still rank 5) you can then use along with a Geras. This is especially true if you went with a 1:1 stat distribution since youāll benefit from Finestra the most in such stat build.
Sword3 doesnāt have much to offer in terms of pre-lv.200 leveling and I donāt really recommend joining TBL until you get to Dragoon C1 at least. I understand thereās no rule or law about this but I donāt want to spoil other peopleās fun just because they got teamed up with an R5-R6 non-cleric/wiz class. [Feel free to join 2v2 for the daily 50 shop points though.]
[ā¦] That is one of the advantages too I guess. You get to full feel how Hoplite is ASAP. So in case you realize it really isnāt your thing, then at least you havenāt really invested that much time and effort in it.
[/quote][/details]
These videos should be up very soon if they arenāt yet. Iāll move them to the āCompletedā section above once done. My upload connection is really crappy.
//
More coming soon!
I really wanted to include more 5v5ās here but itās so rare to find 5v5 at the hours Iām able to play (5am real time). Also, recording really makes my FPS drop significantly when thereās that much players on the screen especially Cryos.
For more TOS-related vids, please feel free to check out my Youtube channel:
These videos should be up very soon if they arenāt yet. Iāll move them to the āCompletedā section above once done. My upload connection is really crappy.
Not as fluid as I expected. Murmillo builds seems to handle combos better and has more CCs. Still fun to play though, and definitely feels new compared to the Catagoon playstyle Iām used to.
Long Stride has quite a long execution time and very long CD. Barely viable for dodging/escaping, and really hard to land as an initiating skill or gap closer.
Pierce is sh~t in PVP due to crappy animation and size factor of enemies. Youād rather normal attack.
Stabbing is nice for stun-locking when everything else is on CD. Helps with breaking Safety Zones too (Restrain stun can penetrate invulnerability status unless they have Bloodlet on).
Spear Lunge is usable whenever you can though that one extra second could allow the enemy to escape unless Restrain stun procs.
Spear Throw is nice for sniping when your Dethrone is on CD. Sucks to lose damage though until you pick up your spear which means going where the enemy is (if theyāre still alive). Bind attribute isnāt too reliable but great when it procs. Canāt really spam that much due too animation delay when enemy team has lots of CCs to drop on you. Youād rather normal attack and stunlock them with Restrain (if itās still on) while waiting for your core skills to CD.
I usually try to use Goon skills in the rotation as much as I can as those are ones that deal the most damage.
Iām coming back this month from a very long hiatus and was looking for something new. Your build really got my attention. Iāve already started a new sword.
If youāre already a Dragoon and have invested quite a lot in equipment (ie. 2h spear and/or 1h spear + shield) on a former swordie, this is a fun & cheap build to switch to.
Iāve already highlighted the pros and cons on the build below:
Itās a build that tries to fit in both worlds (PVE & PVP).
Hopefully it helps you decide if this is really a build for you or not (hope it is! ).
This is my forth sword. I made a HL3/B1/Dop2 that I love playing with but my first toon was a goon that didnāt work very well. And I never cared for metas!
I think Iāll have a lot of fun with this new toon since I love Hop skills too.
Hey man - I use https://getsharex.com/ . I just open the recorded gameplay on VLC then capture the screen area with ShareXās GIF maker.
An alternative would be to upload the file to Youtube first then use Imgur or http://giphy.com/create/gifmaker to create a GIF out of a part of the video.
) so I thought Iād share my experience as a HopGoon, mainly in PVP.
So in case you realize it really isnāt your thing, then at least you havenāt really invested that much time and effort in it.
