Tree of Savior Forum

Please have a weekly "State of the game" thread

Suggestions
#1

Hi imc staff, GMs, and devs!

The community absolutely needs better proof that you guys are listening to and actually working to address a lot of the bigger issues we’re bringing up. The current issues thread in the announcements is a good start, but it only addresses game bugs or issues with basic game functionality. It doesn’t go far enough to allay worries about bigger issues and also the direction of the game going into the future.

One example: Prior to launch, myself and many others expressed worries about how this game is being monetized and yet launch day we find prices to have not changed from the kToS version at all. Predictably, you can go onto steam, look at reviews now and find people complaining about $18 token prices and P2W aspects of the game.

And now? You’re getting massive complaints about the trading system for example. The community at this point is not really sure that you guys have serious plans to address this issue.

Suggestion:

imc should have a weekly “State of the game” thread where gms or staff or devs summarize the major issues brought up by the community over the past week (should not be bug focused). It would be even better if the thread is created and managed by someone higher up the imc totem pole. This opening post is a great example of what such a list might look like.

The community should be allowed to vote on the 3 most important issues brought up in the list and imc should provide a response/plan addressing those issues with a putative timetable for fixes or changes (it would be absolutely fine if there’s a few days delay in the responses.)

This needs to start happening ASAP if the ship is to be turned around. Show this to the higher ups and convince them the change that is being proposing needs to be happening if this trend (as of 4/3/2016) is to be turned around:

Please, I think myself and many other would like a response to suggestions like this, pleading for better communication with imc about the overarching state of the game.

Better community feedback processes would help avoid situations like what I’ve described HERE

4 Likes
History repeats itself. Especially if you don't learn from the past
IMCgames and damage control
Steam rating dropping fast
Unofficial megathread of all current issues in the game - vote inside, let IMC know how many players want these changes! [Last Update: 4/7 0:21 AM]
Does anyone have a compelling reason why we can't have these kinds of community interactions with imc?
We need a statement from the staff
#2

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

#3

Thank you at least for the bump. But I think you are encouraging lazy/blind development which will be terrible for the future of this game.

There are many very small studios that have no problems achieving what I’ve described.

The only difference is whether said studio has the desire or not.

Stonehearth Development Blog

Grinding Gear Games Development Manifesto
They are seriously amazing

Do you want more examples?

EDIT: Here have some more anyways!

Trendy Entertainment: Dungeon Defenders II Dev Log
Warframe anyone?

My overall point is that well regarded developers (whether they are a small team or a big one) do this. imc should too.

#4

No polls??? Whats happening??
w8

Now i see it :wink:

1 Like
#5

They do update it from time to time.

#6

Yes, good point. You probably read the post before I edited it.

I’ve reworded my post to be a bit more explicit. Thanks for the feedback!

#7

While it’s great to get apologies. At some point after the Xth apology, they lose their meaning. What players want more than anything else is actual proof that their concerns about the game are being heard and that actual devs have workplans and time tables for when these problems will be addressed.

Saying “Oh we hear your issues” doesn’t cut it! What exactly are the player base’s main complaints? Can the imc producer/devs in Korea list them off? How do reports like some of the ones from CBT as described HERE manage to fall through the cracks? Does it really take 4+ months of development to fix some of these issues (chat filter options I’m looking at you!)?

imc games absolutely needs to have better community interactions and the first step is actual accountability to not only fans but at this point many paying customers for this product.

Please strongly consider doing something like what has been proposed in the opening thread imc games. I thank the staff for their amazing work, but I am extremely resentful at this point regarding the overall direction that imc games as a company has taken.

@STAFF_Ethan, @STAFF_John, @STAFF_Ines, @STAFF_Shawn, @Staff_Julie

EDIT: Do imc higher ups really want this trend to continue?

#8

I should add, is imc even doing outreach and research into what other iToS communities think beyond just these forums which obviously have bias? You guys have some serious toxicity brewing. Example:

#9

I second all of this said by chronosanct.

Players need to be kept on the loop. Even if it`s placebo, we have to hear something from you guys that has a little more meaning to it than the KNOWN BUGS post.

It just hasn’t been enough. These ingame compensations aren’t even meaningful. The players need the company to come forth and explain things. That alone would make the community settle down a little bit, item compensation has not achieved this at all (and wont ever). :slight_smile:

#10

Yeah, and there’s so many good examples of excellent community interactions to learn from. I look at games like path of exile and warframe and if you go onto the forums, you can see devs dropping in, actual detailed posts about what their logic for a specific skill change or feature change was and discussion (usually agreement) with the proposal.

Path of Exile
Warframe

I am fully aware that we have the additional issue of a language barrier but where there is a will there is a way.

Heck look at FFXIV:

He urged that proper planning is of key importance for an MMO, especially in consideration of long-term updates to the game. “Running an MMO is like running a country,” Yoshida said. “Dissatisfied players will leave.”

However, he said, as long as players are complaining, they still care. The trick is to learn to listen and adapt based off of those complaints. He also said it was important for creators to play their own games. Returning to the country analogy: “If the leaders don’t live there, why would their subjects?”

Wrapping up, Yoshida said that Square Enix itself has learned many lessons from the struggle with Final Fantasy 14. While the initial game was a massive failure, it was an important opportunity for the publisher to reassess its methods and grow. And this is just the start.

Source

1 Like
#11

Nice quote.

I’m still looking forward to what the next few weeks will brings us in regard to these communication issues. I can see IMC trying a lot. I even had a quest bugged out that was solved by posting at this forum. I find that really nice. But the whole community is asking for more now. I’m posting here again because I really value this idea and would like to see more in depth explanations about everything that is going on with the game.

#12

Also, you guys are probably already doing this, but if not, then I also highly highly recommend going through some of the positive and negative reviews that are on Steam to get a feel for what has satisfied or ticked off many players.

A lot of these players poured a lot of time and energy into writing those reviews and it shows that they clearly cared/still care.

Here is an example excerpt from the most highly rated review for example (444/558 found helpful):

PROS:

  • Extremely diverse class system. Many different ways to build your character, but limited (Reason in cons).
  • Huge map to explore.
  • Many levels giving it an interesting goal to get to cap. Current cap at this time is upwards of nearly 300 levels.
  • Many items to gear your character. Most classes can go 1h + offhand/shield or 2handed weapon allowing you to go tanky or focus dps.
  • You generate TP (In-game Cash Shop currency) overtime, to a maximum of 5 TP. You can use this to get several items which includes Megaphones to use global chat (or shout chat for this game.
  • Cosmetics can have stat improvements to buff your character. (Con below to go with this.)
  • Collections are rewarding by giving you bonus’ for completing them. These bonus’ are also carried across your entire Team (family/characters). (Con below to go with this.)
  • Fairly large storage which can be upgraded is a nice change from games which only allow 10-20 items to be stored.
  • Upgrading gear isn’t NEARLY as challenging as some other games making it nice to be able to upgrade gear. Your “fail chance” never drops below 51%.

CONS:

  • No P2P trading for free users. Even Token is limited to 30 trades a month.
  • Can’t trade Silver (In-game general currency) through trading.
  • Extremely limited AH, only 1 without a Token. Even with Token its limited to only 5 items for sale.
  • AH is on a ridiculous timer to claim silver after an item is purchased. Nearly 2 days wait to retrieve most sales.
  • AH takes a HUGE cut of profit, 30% might as well vendor the items unless they’re worth 1mil+ even then you lose a ton. Token users get this reduced to (?15%?)
  • Loot distribution is allocated to persons dealing highest amount of damage on every setting. Tested and confirmed, aprox ~90% of the time the person with highest damage gets loot. As an aoe wizard I clear groups and get most if not all loot over my friends in the party through-out the zone. Even on round-robin I had gotten 5 items before someone else got 1.
  • Buffs are limited. Yes you heard that right, BUFFS are limited. There are skills that increase how many buffs you can have, and buffs that give you more… buff slots. Token users can have more buffs.
  • Limited dungeon entries. You can’t freely grind dungeons like, nearly, EVERY other MMORPG out there. For some reason its crazy bad if you can grind exp/loot in a dungeon, limit is 2 entries per day, 3 for Token users.
  • Limited Global chat, or shout chat. You need to spend TP (In-game Cash Shop currency) to buy Megaphones to talk in global (shout). There is a pro to this as seen above though.
  • Some of these limitations are to stop gold spammers/sellers (RMTers) but are completely useless since there are still hundreds of gold spammers per day. The only real thing the limitations do is destroy the multiplayer aspect of the game.
  • Selected wrong class for advancement? Sucks to be you, make a new character, enjoy grinding to 200 again. You can buy a Skill Reset potion which will allow you to reset skill allocations, but not your chosen class advancement.
  • Tokens CAN’T be given to people to allow them to become premium, since you can’t trade to non-token players. Even if you could trade, Tokens can’t be traded except for through the marketplace. ADDITIONALLY, only Tokens bought through TP (In-game Cash Shop currency) can actually be sold.
  • Guilds can’t be made unless you become a Templar class which is Swordsman ONLY access. As far as my own research has gone, you need select it for your 7th class advancement, which is pretty much end game, before you can even think about leading.
  • Attribute training is limited to RESEARCHING 1 at a time, 2 for Token users. This can be confusing as the game says you can only learn 1 at a time, but it actually means you can only research 1 at a time. You can learn ALL attributes, it just takes time (and Silver).
  • Enchanting a cosmetic costs an Enchanting Scroll from the TP Cash Shop. Enchanting is extremely RNG and you could waste $100 and not get anything worth anything.
  • Collections can be complicated. You must first find a hidden chest (if there is one) in the Area you are to start a collection. Then you must collect misc material drops which can include rare accessory’s and armor or weapons. Additionally, you must take the collection crate to allow the collection to an NPC in town. To complete the collection you need to put the items in the collection vendor which consumes them.
  • Specific class restricted crafting. Some Classes (Archer/Wizard) have a special class advancement allowing them to craft special items. You must take that class over a DPS/Support class in order to make these items or buy them from someone who can.
  • You must talk to a specific TP Cash Shop vendor to buy TP items. you need to plan ahead or risk needing to teleport back if you want to grab an item (Soul Stone, EXP tome, etc)
  • When upgrading an item after X amout of upgrades you have a chance to fail and lose potential, after all potential is gone the item will be destroyed. Trading, team sharing, adding a gem socket, or buying an item from the AH causes the item to lose 1 potential instantly.
  • When using Team Storage you decrease item potential by 1 making trading items between characters just as bad as buying from the AH.