Tree of Savior Forum

Does anyone have a compelling reason why we can't have these kinds of community interactions with imc?

General Discussion
#1

This is part of my personal push to get imc to have their devs, producers, and higher ups interact with our community in more meaningful ways. The main suggestion can be found HERE.

Please take a read through the forums of these two games. They are absolutely quite different from ToS but, wouldn’t you want to have similar types of interactions for this game?

Path of Exile
Warframe

Does anyone want to compare and contrast these examples with the types of interactions and ‘discussions’ we’ve been getting so far in these forums?

Are there people who think that this shouldn’t happen? If so, why not?

I see this as a real opportunity, for the first time imc the developer is in a situation where they are not yoked to a publisher. Their actions are their own. This is a possibility to get something really awesome going. We need to grab that possibility especially given current events. How else will imc recover from the current views on the game? Will fixing server issues really solve everything?

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#2

It’s good but it will never happen. The Korean developers don’t have such an ethic of talking about their development openly and honestly. There’s a lot of cultural emphasis on ‘saving face’ and ‘shame’, so they would probably not go along with it.

Unfortunate but true. Wish we could have something like that though, would be far more coherent and organized.

Btw the above is not a reason as to why we can’t have it. IMO, we should have it but I’m just saying that the reality is that the developers won’t agree to it.

3 Likes
#3

I’m not about to give up. Language is not an issue, this game has already shown that we have a lot of very passionate translators who would be able to convey our concerns to the devs if only there were a channel.

I think we lose nothing by trying to push for this. If we give up, then the current status quo continues. I don’t see good things in the future (even after the brouhaha over server instabilities die down).

#4

1; both of those games are older by several years, and staff aren’t busy dealing with “post launch issues”. considering what level of response i have seen from the staff thus far, i wouldn’t be surprised to see regular interaction between staff and community once things settle down.

2; both of those games probably have a much larger staff available, and can afford to actually dedicate a certain number of them to specifically dealing with community interaction.

#5

Are there any disadvantages to trying to get this kind of communication going with the devs?

#6

Well I mean FFXIV had a similar issues right? And perhaps this is overgeneralizing but ‘saving face’ is also a cultural thing in Japan and China too.

DISCLAIMER: I am not suggesting that imc should rework their game and try for a re-release. What I am suggesting is the game designers really start having better communication with the people paying for and playing their games.

He urged that proper planning is of key importance for an MMO, especially in consideration of long-term updates to the game. “Running an MMO is like running a country,” Yoshida said. “Dissatisfied players will leave.”

However, he said, as long as players are complaining, they still care. The trick is to learn to listen and adapt based off of those complaints. He also said it was important for creators to play their own games. Returning to the country analogy: “If the leaders don’t live there, why would their subjects?”

Wrapping up, Yoshida said that Square Enix itself has learned many lessons from the struggle with Final Fantasy 14. While the initial game was a massive failure, it was an important opportunity for the publisher to reassess its methods and grow. And this is just the start.

Source

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#7

Not to be harsh or anything… but

Disclaimer: I wish this community were more like those used on your example, but the way they are right now, it’s a dream to think they can.

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#8

I mean at this point, what is the alternative? Deal with what we have? What I am proposing is a stretch, but if the community shows enough interest, why couldn’t it happen?

If you believe it can’t happen, then yes, you’re right it will never happen.

EDIT: Also what does it say about the community opinion of imc if people invoke ‘dreams’ when talking about proposals that should be commonsense and encouraged for the future health of this game?

#9

I have no idea how it works in Korea, but there might some legal strings attached to sharing development process. I’m just speculating here…

#10

Any koreans who know a bit about this have any thoughts on this? It sounds like a stretch to me personally.

Especially since imc, the company developing the game, are essentially their own publishers here. Warframe and PoE are on Steam and that certainly hasn’t stopped them from doing what they’re doing in terms of community interaction.

#11

What I believe, or you believe has little to no importance on the outcome. We are a part of a international server, behind language barriers, poor comunication, absent staff ( due to the focus on fixing problems and not ignoring the community ).

Most of the player can’t tell if we are on a OBT or Release, and most of them just got the Founders Pack for the headstart, so they don’t care about testing and demand IMC to take responsabilities because they pay to play… What they don’t realise is that they paid to test.

#12

To get back to the topic then… are you arguing then that the compelling reason why we cannot have the same sorts of community interaction that I outlined for the other two games is because:

Are those really insurmountable barriers?

Don’t we already have volunteer translators who helped translate a large portion of the game to english? Don’t you think they’d be interested in helping improve the game by opening communications channels with the devs?

My whole proposal is one to improve the poor communication, so to cite it, doesn’t strike me as a real reason…

Yes, staff are busy now fighting server fires, but they need to be not only focusing on the now, but the future too right?

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#13

@chronosanct i’m really not sure what you’re looking for from the devs here…

firstly, as i mentioned above, right now they simply don’t have the time to sit down over tea and biscuits to have a nice chat about the future of the game… they’re still busy trying to get it safely off the launch-pad.

secondly, as @elysium commented, korean developers/publishers tend to lean towards the “much less” end of the communication volume.

sit back and relax, and give them a couple of months to put out the current fires (and then the napalm bombing that will happen when if goes public access at the end of the month). and THEN when they have less of a panic situation, try and get the communication going.

#14

It all boils down to a difference in cultures. Western developers are much more comfortable connecting with players than Asian developers, who are more than likely to be not very sociable.

Also something to consider is that South Korea in particular actually has laws that limit people’s gametime since there have been cases of people neglecting their health and the health of their kids for the sake of gaming. That says quite a bit about their social habits.

#15

@tzxazrael
@ZeroTigress
@elysium

  1. On the “Korean culture is different” argument, I don’t find that persuasive personally. It’s not much different from saying “that’s just how it is”. Well, I’m arguing that it’s a problem and that it needs to change! Besides, they’re playing on international turf now and isn’t there that saying?

When in Rome do as the Romans do.

If they were only targeting a Korean audience, sure they can do whatever the heck they want (and how did that turn out?). But it should not be considered a “dream” or unreasonable to hold them to high standards like other developers who release products on an international scale right?

  1. On the issue of the devs being “too busy”. I again, don’t buy that and I think that given that there is already a huge perception problem for imc, they need to make community outreach and communication an important priority. Believe it or not, they should be able to focus on more than 1 thing at a time. Besides, didn’t they have 4+ months to address many of the still existing issues raised in closed beta testing? How much time do they need???

Do you think that 64% 63% 62% 61% 60% steam rating is magically going to fix itself even if the servers become more stable? I would argue no! The damage to imc’s reputation has already been done, so what needs to happen is steps need to be taken to repair that reputation ASAP. That involves better communication as I have been describing. If we allow imc to wait for a few months, then I would argue that’s too little too late. ToS will go the way of Dragomon hunters.

What do you guys think?

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#16

frankly, i’d rather they didn’t. i don’t need them to hold my hand and tell me everything’s going to be fine. we can see that for ourselves when we stop encountering the various problems that we’ve been facing.

also, bear in mind that closed beta had what… a couple thousand players total? meaning that at any given time, probably only a few hundred were ever on at once. now they’ve suddenly gone from “several hundred” to “tens of thousands”. obviously this, just by itself, is going to reveal problems that were simply never encountered before and need to be addressed.

as for the several months of time in closed beta, maybe they spent that time working on problems that came up during the closed beta, perhaps?

#17

I mean I want to hear opinions and I hear where you are coming from.

That said, how does imc recover from the current 60% steam rating? Do you think that fixing servers will be enough to bring it back up? I’m skeptical that would happen. If you’re saying current communication practices are fine. How does imc improve community perception of them and ToS?

Regarding closed beta feedback. I highly suggest you take some time to go back to Aug, Oct, and Nov of 2015 and just read some of the posts. For me at least, it was a really interesting feeling of deja vu.

#18

IMC’s lack of communication is similar to how Gameforge treats its customers. And how do Gameforge’s games fare? Most of them are p2w and ghost towns.

#19

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

#20

I was never saying ToS should emulate the gameplay. I was saying ToS should emulate the good community interaction philosophies…

In the case of PoE I think they have a really admirable monetization manifesto as well.

Yes, I’ve read what she has said. That said, there still the big question in my mind!

How does imc recover from the current 60% steam rating? Do you think that fixing servers will be enough to bring it back up? I’m skeptical that would happen. If you’re saying current communication practices are fine. How does imc improve community perception of them and ToS?

You are arguing that the community should just accept what it has. How do you think that will affect the perception of imc and ToS going into the future?