Tree of Savior Forum

Trading - Team Storage - Token

Not sure if it’s too late for basic changes like this, but now that it’s confirmed that we’re getting the same limits on those features as kTOS, I feel like I have to voice my opinion once more.

1:1 Trading

How it works on kTOS and how it’s apparently going to be on iTOS:
-default: Disabled altogether
-with active Token: can trade 1:1 with other people, but only those who have Token active as well
–also comes with several limits (limited amount of trades, silver cannot be traded etc…)

Considering the fact that there is all sorts of limits that can be applied to restrict trading, I fail to understand why it is completely disabled for non-Token-users, rather than just having way stricter limits.
Not being able to trade Silver in either case is perfectly fine.
But when it comes to items, given that there is already the whole “potential”-mechanic, completely disabling it for default is overkill, because it also disables one-way trading/gifting from Token-users.
Personally, I’d make it like this:
Anyone can open a trade-window with anyone. But what they can actually drag into the Trade depends on their Token status.
-No Token would mean say maximum 5 individual items per day (allowing new players to switch the occasional “wrong” weapon drops from a quest boss with a different player).
-Token users can trade say 50 items per day, perhaps even put a limit on how many of the same item can be traded in bulk (10?), but that would have to treat different items differently of course (gems, Talt and whatnot having tighter restrictions.)
In both cases, silver still disabled. In regards to Silver, it brings me to the next feature…

Team Storage

I understand the need to restrict trading (silver in particular!), but in regards to storage/sharing items and silver among your own characters, I have no idea why that would have to be restricted at all.

I mean, especially when IMC has more than once previously talked about their philosophical standpoint that the player is not his character, but his team. In other words, we are meant to create multiple different characters and switch between them as we please. The party and guild system is made with that in mind (you switch your character but stay in the party/guild).

So why on earth would a Team-Storage not be a fundamental feature?
There is specific “crafting” and “selling” classes in the game, that people want to use for gaining extra silver. But in this state, that is sort of pointless, as you have to gain silver on each character separately anyway.

The Team-storage system currently on kTOS (and coming to iTOS in that form):
-disabled for non-Token users
-Token users get 1 item slot in team storage (and can buy a few more for 200k silver each I believe), but the items also lose “potential” just like they would in a trade.

And since both of the issues I mentioned so far relate to it, let me talk about the

Token system

The basic idea is nice. However I think the execution could use quite a bit of fine tuning.
The way I see it, it’s currently both, too expensive and enabling features that are too basic. (you want majority of the players purchasing Tokens in different degrees, not have a richer minority purchase more than they need in order to sell them via AH to the rest of the server…)

I mean, whenever I look at the list of things it offers, it’s not clear what it’s trying to be, as on one side it gives “quality of life”-buffs, like an overall EXP boost, a slightly faster movement speed, learning more than one attribute… and on the other side it gives access to core features that are otherwise completely blocked, like the mentioned 1:1 trading and team-storage.

I’ve got the following suggestion:

Make core features a one-time payment. You unlock these once and then use them forever.
Making up numbers here, but say 100TP to unlock Team storage (even if just one slot and each additional slot for 10TP or whatever…), 200TP to be able to trade up to 10 items per day instead of it being disabled, 200TP for the reduced tax in the auction house etc.
Or make it a separate different kind of Token THAT LASTS A YEAR for 400TP or something similar (call it Amulet instead or something to avoid confusion.)

My point is: CORE FEATURES should be in the same category as character slots/lodges. You enable them and are good to go.

The existing Token would then be left with granting “quality of life”-buffs, like:
-30% EXPboost
-4 movement speed
-multiple attibute learning
-twice as fast regenerating free TP
-twice as high maximum of regenerating TP
-a few additional dungeon-runs

while having its cost reduced closer to at least half of its current value.

With THAT system, a player would want to spend that one-time/yearly $$$ for the core features, while spending additional $$$ on the buffs-Token for the months when you intend to play hardcore.

I mean you have this distinction in the cash-shop already!

  • “additional character slots” are the same category as the “access to core features” from the Token should be treated as
  • “cosmetics/random items in the cash shop” is the same category as the “quality of life” aspects of the Token should be

The first category is: showing basic support for the game in exchange for core features
The second category is: additional profit on top of that from richer players

Instead, right now it’s an overpriced impractical mess of a pseudo-subscription.

@Staff_Julie @STAFF_John @STAFF_Ethan

16 Likes

I concur with your idea of a 1-time payment for the core features, so long as the core-features enabling ‘amulet’ can be sold on the auction house (some people don’t have access to credit cards and you can’t leave those people without the core features).

With this 1-time payment you should remove all core-feature restrictions (no limit on 1:1 trading, and no limit on silver trading).

I am going to assume the only reason those restrictions are in place is because of bots/gold-sellers (since that is the currently accepted rumor and there hasn’t actually been an official statement about why those features are there).

With a 1-time payment the game essentially becomes B2P for bots/gold-sellers, and even though it is known that B2P can not stop them completely, it will definitely hurt more when they get banned and so will reduce all but the most hardcore botters/gold-sellers. I think you would see less botters with OPs suggestion then with the current model.

1 Like

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Sorry about that Dx

tl;dr:

Effects of Token should be split:
-Core features (storage/trading) reimplemented as one time payments, or a yearly more expensive Token-B
-while rest of the “buffs” remain as Token A with a reduced price

Totally agree that crafting classes, as the storage system is now, are kind of useless

I am starting to come to terms with losing Potency on items when trading them between different accounts, or that I can’t trade Silver to other people. But I do indeed still think it’s stupid that using your Team storage will also reduce Potency, or that I can’t give Silver to my other characters. I think that should at least be possible, and I wouldn’t mind making a one-time purchase for that ability.

Good idea!

2 Likes

OP you are kind of contradicting yourself.

You say that core features should be available to everyone by default and then you propose to put them in cash shop for TP or even create another cash shop item that achieves the same. So what the difference between current token and your proposal then? it will equally deny using those “core features” for free players.

[quote=“Charon, post:1, topic:153296”]
while having its cost reduced closer to at least half of its current value.
[/quote]Is what i perceive as main motive behind OP proposing split of current token into two.

@Staff_Julie another one of these topics. I will stop mentioning u now, but I think this is a really important thing that should absolutely be changed somehow. Lots of people started talking about it and it really seems like a bad system.

1 Like

I’m not saying the core-features should be default for F2P at all (so, simpler to get as a F2P rather). What I’m saying is that they should belong in the same part of the “cash-shop” as lodge-expansion, instead of being part of the Token.

Well sure, I’ve seen/heard lots of people saying the Tokens are too pricey in general (regardless of what they do), as it’s the equivalent of a 20$/month subscription game, whereas most games would be closer to 10 or 15 at most, especially when there is a regular cash-shop and other stuff on top of it as well.
But I also personally feel that I’d be more inclined to having a Token active all the time if it was half the price (and even did much less as in my OP), whereas now I feel like I’ll try having 2-3 in reserve and only use them in certain months of the year or such, while also having to time it with my friends…if they’ll want to use Tokens at all of course lol.

In general, I just feel like more options is always preferable to one option that doesn’t know what kind of cash-shop item it’s trying to be.

The current Token system just feels unattractive (and half thought-through) to me like that.
I’d rather have the option of buying the core feature separate (or as a separate Token) from the convenience-buffs that in my eyes are just there to justify it being THAT overpriced. And I don’t think that’s just me.

2 Likes

Exactly. I feel like these are such crucial details, that people currently either aren’t aware off yet, or they’ll only realize how inconvenient or poorly executed they are when they see them in-game…and at that point it’ll be too late for changing them, as people will have started spending money. but it’s probably too late now already…

At least the concerns like the “600% for not playing with your friends”-party-matchmaking-bonus, it can realistically be changed later, but the basics of the cash-shop system cannot just be overhauled once the game is running s:

3 Likes

What ? No.
Core features should be accessible to every players.
It’s okay to limit them (like x trades a day). But banning them ? Hell no !
What’s with all this bastardized p2p hype ?

1 Like

Potential system is tackling an entirely different issue with the game and that is the circulation of OP or God-Like items to everyone and anyone.

Just like in RO, you would never know who had that “+10 Ghost Valk Armor”, so it was impossible to prepare for it.

1 Like

What get’s accomplished by limiting trades?

Restricting trade could discourage people from botting (since they can’t transfer the items to their main), but limiting trade means they can still transfer the most valuable items.

The only thing I can think of is that IMC gets lots of money from their players, but they will be pushing players away at the same time.

Sorry if the tl;dr isn’t as clear. But we’re agreeing there.

The point is… since trading will not be accessible simply and without restriction by default no matter what anyway, my first suggestion is also that instead of being completely blocked by default, being at least very limited by default would be a lot better.

In other words, I’m making this suggestion instead of an utopic “trading should be completely limitless for everyone”, because this might actually have a realistic chance of being considered, due to it still hindering botters/goldsellers in the same way as full block, but not dividing/annoying the players nearly as much.

additionally, if trading in particular simply will not be enabled by default even in a very limited manner… then I think blocking it behind a one-time payment would still be preferable to it being tied to a Token system (due to its “core-feature” nature), or not?

Or perhaps it could be both even. Very limited “basic” trading for free (1 item per day?), with one-time payments for increasing that number. Just like character slots. You have some by default, and you can unlock more with TP. It just depends on how far IMC would actually be willing to go.

The bottom-line I’m getting at is this:
ANY OF THESE POSSIBILITIES would be much preferable to the NoToken=NoTrading – Token=Trading duality.

@Staff_Julie (sorry I keep tagging you, but I feel like the topic of how important features are tied to the games money structure is more crucial than anything before it opens…)

Im agree with your idea. Im really shocked with the $%% actual system of the game.

For me personally the durability loss ist the most annoying thing about the whole trading system. It just destroys so many things…

Durability loss, or Potential loss?

I think the Potential system actually makes a lot of sense for preventing the game from becoming flooded with OP items.

You can see this thread for some explanations of some of the benefits of it: Equipment Potentials

It’s definitely the biggest reason I am coming to terms with the Potential loss. However, there are two situations where I think trading shouldn’t cause a Potential loss:

  1. Transferring items between your characters
  2. You’re in a party and got a boss drop that’s better suited for a party member
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Potential is fine. It is not prohibiting you from trading it is putting a cap on the # of trades. It is a good thing since it keeps the market fresh and old items won’t always be circulating in the market till the end of time.

Upgrading items is easier than in RO since there the item would break after 1 failure.

Yeah, okay…I can understand the potential loss for trading. However, slowly loosing potential when Using the team storage is awful.