Which Bugs Do YOU Think Are Most Urgent!?

[ophiuchu]

Except you replied to what I said in that post as expected. That’s the reality and people mistaked Boleto exploiting for duping if you want to get technical. From what people speculated the buy back was removed over resetting potential on gear which I never really did that when it actually worked to know. People thought negative warp was back but it did end up being a visual thing.

Now on to the -real- things this one was the real killer that people got away with forever. Who knows how many people abused this early on and got away with bloody murder before cubes were even a thing.

Exploit/Abuse WorldBoss/UpgradeItens/DupItens

Server : Silute Team Name : Fiorinha Location : Forest of Prayer Approximate date / time (EDT) : 9:35 Evidence : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adSMi-y0D7o&feature=youtu.be People are abusing with a lot of bugs, In this video u can crash the channel when u want, IMC says its impossible crash channels, I bring the proff now... Explain the situation Crash channels make time back 30 seconds or more in time.SO... People are refining itens, if fail, crash the channel and try again People…

That was -not- during beta and most accounts if you search topics are in August. There’s never been a roll back in the history of this game ever at any point so all those items from July/August to December created from exploited still float around I’m sure. The only people who deny this stuff is the buddy of one your post likers who I’m waiting to hear from in a couple days. That one I can quote directly for you here:

GM Information Session - Orange Returns

Orange reiterated Papaya’s point about not all the exploits that the community thought existed, actually existed
If they did exist, and were as bad as they were thought to be, the servers would have been rolled back

So now you want to get serious? We gonna go here now. What do you have to say about the GM basically denying major exploits over about…at least four to eight months? Which is worse me making something up to bait you out or the GM saying they would have rolled back if there was exploits which there actually was and confirmed by our Hookmiester himself with that command? Hmmm interesting.

How can we spin this one now? It’s established now that players weren’t denying exploits but the GM do. What a tweest~

This is also why I am for a server wipe after they fix bugs ect.

[Seiran]

Except you replied to what I said in that post as expected.

I fell on your trap Mr. Rabbit Hunter. Congrats!

I’ll start here first:

That was -not- during beta and most accounts if you search topics are in August. There’s never been a roll back in the history of this game ever at any point so all those items from July/August to December created from exploited still float around I’m sure. The only people who deny this stuff is the buddy of one your post likers who I’m waiting to hear from in a couple days. That one I can quote directly for you here:

I don’t get your point. Seriously.

First: You claim that a lot of players are denying the existence of exploits.
Second: You bring back existent issues and things that people complained a lot.
Third: You quote a post containing a player QUOTING a GM answer.

Then, according to the greatest goddess of the universe:

The only people who deny this stuff is the buddy of one your post likers who I’m waiting to hear from in a couple days.

Now it’s only one person denying the existence of exploits. And that’s based on a quoted answer from GM which the player relayed to the community.

Right, you could have understood it or used your divine powers to make an illusion into a real and tangible fact.

What do you have to say about the GM basically denying major exploits over about…at least four to eight months?

Oh wait, you did acknowledge that the GM replied it. So you know the user didn’t deny exploits, right?

About the GM denying exploits, I don’t like it, I prefer when things are open and sincere. But I also agree that the community sometimes put up some high scale exploits that may not always be the case. Who knows? I don’t like it but it’s not up for me to judge since I don’t have logs and tools.

That’s the reality and people mistaked Boleto exploiting for duping if you want to get technical. From what people speculated the buy back was removed over resetting potential on gear which I never really did that when it actually worked to know. People thought negative warp was back but it did end up being a visual thing.

Now on to the -real- things this one was the real killer that people got away with forever. Who knows how many people abused this early on and got away with bloody murder before cubes were even a thing.

Now could tell me where are the people denying those bugs existed? Really, everyone knows and complains about them.

That’s the only thing I have to discuss with you here.

If you’re putting on fake things to support your argument, expect it to be debunked. Simply enough right? Or do you agree that people acknowledge the existence of such exploits and things? Or still thinks that people are denying bugs, exploits and issues? If yes could you quote someone who did that?

How can we spin this one now? It’s established now that players weren’t denying exploits but the GM do. What a tweest~

B-but, after all the discussion, you magically brings the ace out of the sleeve:
“I wasn’t talking about players denying exploit, I meant the GMs”

And, my magically shining answer on that is already written on my post.

Case closed, Mr. Rabbit Hunter. I’m not in favor of server wipes, but that’s another discussion and I’m all for discussions, as long there are no fake data and logical fallacies.

[ophiuchu]

Or do you agree that people acknowledge the existence of such exploits and things? Or still thinks that people are denying bugs, exploits and issues? If yes could you quote someone who did that?

It’s established now that players weren’t denying exploits but the GM do. What a tweest~

GM Information Session - Orange Returns

Orange reiterated Papaya’s point about not all the exploits that the community thought existed, actually existed
If they did exist, and were as bad as they were thought to be, the servers would have been rolled back

There you go I just did.

[mojito1980]

FIX THE MAP ALREADY HOW IS THE NOT FIXED YET??!#?$#!?#!?? (the 0% bug). Can you just shut this game down for 6 months till you get your acts together?

[Seiran]

What do you have to say about the GM basically denying major exploits over about…at least four to eight months?

Oh wait, you did acknowledge that the GM replied it. So you know the user didn’t deny exploits, right?

About the GM denying exploits, I don’t like it, I prefer when things are open and sincere. But I also agree that the community sometimes put up some high scale exploits that may not always be the case. Who knows? I don’t like it but it’s not up for me to judge since I don’t have logs and tools.

How can we spin this one now? It’s established now that players weren’t denying exploits but the GM do. What a tweest~

B-but, after all the discussion, you magically brings the ace out of the sleeve:“I wasn’t talking about players denying exploit, I meant the GMs”

And, my magically shining answer on that is already written on my post.

Case closed, Mr. Rabbit Hunter. I’m not in favor of server wipes, but that’s another discussion and I’m all for discussions, as long there are no fake data and logical fallacies.

There you go I just did.

So, you changed your whole argument into a valid one that can be discussed.

Players aren’t denying exploits, but GMs are, based on that answer. This can be a whole discussion because there are a lot of things involved.

Did they really deny? Did they not? Was it about all exploits? Was it about specific ones? Do we have the tools, facts or data to check and make sure exploits were ignored or denied?

Congrats! Now you just need to stop making logical fallacies and bringing false claims into discussions, way to go!

[Queue]

They were not specific about which exploits they were referring too, it could have been a minor rumour here on the forums, maybe it was one of the bigger ones, until there’s confirmation don’t jump to conclusions.

[Seiran]

I’d also like to bring the Crash->Practonium issue here. Some people may or may not like how it was handled. But I honestly liked the solution.

They did ban the players who abused the bug to have multiple rolls on Mystical Cube to get Practonium. The whole bug was to crash a channel right after one person opened the Mystical Cube.

IMC was smart by looking at something that proves that the person abused the crash issue to benefit one main, even if using one alternative account.

They could have punished who crashed channels or applied more sanctions, maybe they just wanted to be forgiving for who didn’t benefit directly from the issue. I also don’t have the tools to say that people who claimed to be innocent “I only opened once and got banned” stuff are right or not.

But for sure we know. It was one exploit. GMs were aware and handled it. It wasn’t denied nor ignored.

[ophiuchu]

But they have never rolled back ever and channel crashing has been around quite possibly since launch. So somebody if not multiple have abused this the whole time since it was actually figured out almost a year later just how bad this problem actually was in reality.

It persisted for at least six months minimum that is for sure. They thought they fixed it back in July/August because here is the fan fare post actually directed towards Max:

Thank you so much IMC

I know this doesn't happen often enough. However, I want to thank you as a fellow player for delivering iToS to us and continue to strive to improve your service with all your dedications. I, for one, has enjoyed playing iToS and I will continue to do so. Thank you for bringing the korean version patch on time that you have elaborated. And thank you for providing countless hours of entertainment. For all the STAFF and GM, thank you for answering all the questions that we have had. I hope we c…

Then here is the Staff response about cube exploit:

Accounts Banned for Exploiting the Mystic Cube Timer Reset

Greetings Saviors! We have made an announcement regarding 'Accounts Banned for Exploiting the Mystic Cube Timer Reset'. You can check the details at our official website from the following link. Link : https://treeofsavior.com/news/?n=814 Thank you as always for your continued support, enthusiasm and love for Tree of Savior. Sincerely, IMC Staff

Your post with him saying that is 29 days ago which was AFTER all this happened. There’s no specifying needed here and basically saying there is not a need for a wipe because there hasn’t ever been any bad exploits. This is what I mean here like really? How can you even defend that.

[Seiran]

Not defending, but finding the failed relation between the two facts:

They thought they fixed it back in July/August

They fixed how the crashes affected equipment enhancement with anvils.

Then here is the Staff response about cube exploit:

Since you clearly aren’t a developer and as well don’t know the inner workings of the game, you deserve a discount: Anvil enhancement and opening a consumable item have different mechanics.

The things could be in totally different parts in unrelated source code files. I agree, they should have checked more parts of code to fix all the things a crash can affect. But they might not have the manpower yet to do things like this and maybe don’t have a well documented tree.

But again, none of those were denied or ignored, they were handled twice. At maximum they weren’t handled completely. So, are you changing the topic of discussion again?

[Queue]

You would advocate wiping the entire server, because a very few players have an advantage? IMC should go and fix the problems they haven’t fixed yet, that’s fine, but it’s ridiculous that you think rolling back entire servers would help the game. The vast, vast majority of players would be against a server wipe.

As for severity, the extent in which they damaged the game is questionable, and incredibly difficult for us to confirm. Rolling back a server is not something that can be easily considered.

[ophiuchu]

it’s ridiculous that you think rolling back entire servers would help the game. The vast, vast majority of players would be against a server wipe.

I mean don’t most games roll back when there’s really bad exploits? What happens when there’s another one found out does TOS just keep rolling forward forever? I can’t speak for the over forty thousand people that evaporated in the past year but I’m gonna say when you read the threads about this stuff say they are leaving if there’s no fixes or roll backs. But I do agree most of the remaining people left are pretty much bomb proof donkey’s that are clinging on to what ever keeps them tied to the game not wanting a wipe.

But that’s only if you believe the Steam chart thing which I know you personally are like an avid denier of that one and prolly still think hundreds of thousands of people login every day that ToS is fine.

[Seiran]

when there’s really bad exploits?

And when the exploits didn’t impact too much the game or wasn’t totally really bad? Can you post any example of a game rolling back so we can compare how bad are the issues compared to what happened in TOS?

But I do agree most of the remaining people left are pretty much bomb proof donkey’s that are clinging on to what ever keeps them tied to the game not wanting a wipe.

Also, I played since iCBT and start of the beta. I was never in favor of rollbacks, even when TOS had the most players. But for you, someone who don’t even play the game, it’s pretty easy to ask rollbacks every day, right?

But that’s only if you believe the Steam chart thing which I know you personally are like an avid denier of that one and prolly still think hundreds of thousands of people login every day that ToS is fine.

Can you quote any post where the person you answer to did deny the steam charts? Or are you the greatest goddess that forces thoughts and actions into others again?

Also, what happened to the claim about GMs denying exploits? Is the point of discussion magically shifted into “IMC should rollback TOS”?

[ophiuchu]

Comparible to Boletto and I am pretty sure Neverwinter is another kinda dead game. It instantly ruined this game on launch and no idea why the link stopped working for some reason.

[Seiran]

Did you even open that page? Or just took a random google result and pasted here without reading and only did so based on the cached summary?

[Queue]

I mean don’t most games roll back when there’s really bad exploits? What happens when there’s another one found out does TOS just keep rolling forward forever? I can’t speak for the over forty thousand people that evaporated in the past year but I’m gonna say when you read the threads about this stuff say they are leaving if there’s no fixes or roll backs. But I do agree most of the remaining people left are pretty much bomb proof donkey’s that are clinging on to what ever keeps them tied to the game not wanting a wipe.

We don’t know the extent to which the exploits damaged the game, and you certainly don’t roll a server back months, if at all, that’s absolutely insane.

But that’s only if you believe the Steam chart thing which I know you personally are like an avid denier of that one and prolly still think hundreds of thousands of people login every day that ToS is fine.

If you think there are 3000 players that play 24/7 you are delusional. If you take low play time accounts away, basically people who launch the game once, or only for a few hours total (up to 10 in this case), you are left with around 20000 players, take at most 30% off for bots (even though that’s ridiculous but at most that’s the amount based on the Steam accounts who own TOS), and you’re left with 14000 active players in the past two weeks. If you deny that, then you’re intellectually dishonest, and completely ignorant to the entire gaming genre and player trends.

(14000 players is bad by the way and it clearly shows a problem with retention).

Can you quote any post where the person you answer to did deny the steam charts? Or are you the greatest goddess that forces thoughts and actions into others again?

I’ve had this discussion with @ophiuchu multiple times, he has to make an effective counter argument.

[ophiuchu]

If you think there are 3000 players that play 24/7 you are delusional. If you take low play time accounts away, basically people who launch the game once, or only for a few hours total (up to 10 in this case), you are left with around 20000 players, take at most 30% off for bots (even though that’s ridiculous but at most that’s the amount based on the Steam accounts who own TOS), and you’re left with 14000 active players in the past two weeks. If you deny that, then you’re intellectually dishonest, and completely ignorant to the entire gaming genre and player trends.

I won’t deny that 30,000 unique steam ID cycle in every day to login every day possibly. Here is how I think though for a real time test they reset the server during a prime time to see how many people are actually playing because that’s the number which matters. Not any of the AFK people or ones who login and don’t actually do anything of value other than pad a number statistic. Then to figure out the bot thing instead of banning them or disconnecting they keep them in a pen to take a head count.

Then the Staff or GM release a /who number to just tell us how many people.

[Seiran]

Today we stay at the Auction House, but go way back to the open beta, where a major exploit caused the only rollback this game ever experienced.
Here you can know how bad and hard a rollback can be. By the words “the only rollback this game ever experienced.”

On May 19th 2013 an exploit leaked that described the way of creating an indefinite amount of Astral Diamonds with negative bids on auctions.

This isn’t similar to the Boleto issue which created one account for “free” on the Beta access. The account could give you TP and some Hanaming and Popolion hats. Period. The only thing that you could abuse were Tokens and some TP stuff. And the restrictions the game puts made everything untradable after a first trade.

While some may have benefited from this exploit, I think it’s pretty safe to say that it isn’t as how bad this was:

In very few hours, players exploited the design flaw and amassed millions of ADs. It also broke the Astral Diamond exchange, because exploiters needed to trade in their ADs when the character cap of 100 million was reached.

Even with the Boleto exploit one didn’t reach such an absurd number.

And what are Astral Diamonds in that game?

Astral Diamonds are a form of uncommon, sometimes time-gated, in-game Currency in Neverwinter. There are far fewer opportunities to acquire Astral Diamonds than Gold. Astral Diamonds cannot be directly traded between players, but it can be used as trading currency in the Auction House to buy or sell items.

It can be used as trading currency in Auction House to buy and sell items. The bug generated infinite tradable currency which wasn’t the case with ToS and the accounts that abused the Boleto problem were banned.

And know the fun fact: It was mostly a problem on Steam side than with ToS itself:

Regarding Token acquisition via illegal DLC purchase

What we can say right now is that the problem in question seems to be confined to a few isolated cases processed through Steam’s Brazilian store and is related to its payment system, meaning it is out of our direct scope of action.

We will, however, be implementing our own countermeasures to help prevent this type of fraud. More details on this will be announced soon.

Are you still saying that GMs are denying exploits? That’s turning out to be a false claim again, I guess. Or did you change the discussion again with your ace in the sleeve?

[ophiuchu]

People flooded the market with tokens and enchanted hats which mainly the hat is how they made tons of silver. That’s like a fact because these people in some of those posts have a million tokens which the tokens didn’t sell back then but those hats did that is for sure. It enabled people to pretty much amass silver and get what they wanted.

[Seiran]

That’s like a fact because these people in some of those posts have a million tokens which the tokens didn’t sell back then but those hats did that is for sure.

Can you quote those posts? The accounts who had abused the boleto bug were banned. Are you saying that they are not? Also Tokens went untradable after first trade. Are you talking about banned accounts with Tokens but that can’t login again?

Also silver were stuck in one account, you needed to set up items on market (that also have its restrictions) to transfer silver between accounts. The restrictions and other things may have prevented it from being a great harm to the game.

As I said:

While some may have benefited from this exploit, I think it’s pretty safe to say that it isn’t as how bad this was:

It also makes me remember an “exploit” in kTOS which some players went to a Roxona map to exploit an event spawn that dropped too much silver. The players who abused it were banned and had their silver reverted without rolling back the entire server. IMC handled that well in my opinion and adjusted the monsters to not drop any silver.

[Queue]

Right, sure some statistics would be great.

Now don’t accuse me of something for months just to be immediately proved wrong.

It also makes me remember an “exploit” in kTOS which some players went to a Roxona map to exploit an event spawn that dropped too much silver. The players who abused it were banned and had their silver reverted without rolling back the entire server. IMC handled that well in my opinion and fixed the bugs.

Good point on that, we can’t be sure about all the tools IMC has access to, and what they’ve already done to potentially address some of the problems. We simply don’t know, and in this case we don’t even know enough to be confident in any speculation. (Feel free to tell us though Staff. )