Tree of Savior Forum

Understanding the EXP situation [Strawpoll Added]

General Gameplay
#1

This thread is a discussion, if you have a valid point, I’ll add it to the OP.
If you disagree or agree, please reply and give a reason. This way IMC will have this data from us.

Note: The majority of us do still want some form of grind, and don’t want this to be a quest-centric theme park MMO, however at the current rates, it is unbearable.

Now the exp rate is a mess. Why?:

  1. You fall behind largely on your main quest, yet they still allow you to do it and fight bosses 15ish levels higher than you. If you think the bosses are too tanky or you run out of SP in boss fights too fast, it’s because your under leveled, because exp is currently really messed up.

  2. But grinding is fun, I like grinding and grindfest games!
    Cool.
    This game can be a grind fest, it works for this game, that’s alright. In fact it caters to people that like to grind or quest with the hidden quest and sometimes the hidden boss quests.
    But with the current exp scaling, you hit the grind wall in your first hour or 2, around 24. There’s 200 levels in CBT, and possibly 500 in total. There’s 0 reason to hit the wall that early, and the wall does not seem to ever go away (except at some level intervals because level exp scaling is broke).

Most people will leave upon hitting that wall on day 1. At least allow players to reach rank 3 so they can effectively grind.

  1. Blue mobs give so much exp, I level 321321 times!
    Interesting, leveling so much from a blue mob is nice. But the levels you get from it is ridiculous. Everyone currently is just hunting blue mobs, or grinding in a spot where one will appear. What kind of diversity is that?

Solutions:

  1. Change the EXP rate. Raise it up. At the very least change the EXP cards to 3x. This assures players are near the level range of their quest AND allows for those really fun grind level ranges between main quests that jump levels often. No, you won’t reach cap in week 1 this way for anyone that somehow get’s that idea from this.
  2. Change blue mob mechanics. There is no reason for it to give multiple levels. Instead do something like this:
  • Blue mobs give ~20%, no more than 20%, if they are 4 levels above you, 2 levels below you. Then it scales down hard to maybe 10%.
  • Make them slightly more common.

This makes it so the blue mobs a nice boost every now and again, but you can still grind where ever you’d like effectively. With the current system, not only are people only hunting blue mobs, if your ahead of the group, you’ll stay ahead massively by just hunting all the blue mobs

@STAFF_Shawn has responded here:

To sum it up, IMC is aware of the situation, the purpose of this test was to see how x1 base rates worked on an environment that was (or should be) unaware of the KCBT rates. This is also the first testing phase, so there isn’t a reason to have much higher rates this phase, as it wasn’t the objective of this phase.

Please put your input here, even if you have already replied. IMC has already replied, but perhaps this can offer them more data

What should we do about the exp scaling?
http://strawpoll.me/5136693

How should IMC handle exp cards?
http://strawpoll.me/5136711

How should blue mobs be handled?
http://strawpoll.me/5136723.

Here is an exp chart (credits to @Garfy) so you can compare the exp your getting, to the exp required (yes there are odd levels where the scale goes very low, this is usually when you get class level 15):

40 Likes
Base EXP, EXP drop off
Poll : EXP Rate
Grind: Thoughts and Suggestions
iCBT is as it should be
Wabblet's High Level EXP Rate Feedback!
I got lv 83-91 in an hour
Poll : EXP Rate
EXP Rates explained
#2

I cannot comment any further than what has already been discussed. My hope is that the GMs see our discussion and pass along the message. I’m a believer that people can still achieve their desire for a grind with a 3x rate exp gain and achieve whatever the iCBT is currently looking to achieve, if anything aside from the steam logins.

1 Like
#3

I’ve said similar things and agreed with you in the other threads. In this one you’ve done a good job summing up the problem.

No one is asking to take the grind away, even if I don’t personally like grinding. The problem is right now it’s hard to imagine even that. With the current system I picture someone spending several days at one level when they get into the hundreds. That’s not fun - that’s a job!

2 Likes
#4

Several days at one level will happen even with increased EXP, if you don’t like that you might as well not play any further than this or prepare for it.

And no, grinding is not a job.

6 Likes
#5

I’m playing as a Peltasta (going Hoplite), so I don’t have the most damage output. But even when I’m fighting bosses my own level, they’re stupidly tanky. It’s not that they have a lot of health, and my abilities hit them hard. It’s just my normal attacks do nothing to them.

As for grinding. I don’t mind it, but I’ll say it again. The grind starts way too soon. I’m level 36 out of 250+ (supposedly max level is 500). That is like being level 7 in a game with a max level of 100. But I have to kill thousands of things to level up once. Most games wont make you grind that much so early on.

As for blue mobs. Best way to grind. Can find a few an hour if you’re lucky. But even then, these don’t give me a level anymore. Closer to 40-50% of a level. It’s still easier than grinding on those flowers for hours.

#6

I am not playing on iCBT, but the exp from KRCBT3 seems perfectly fine.

There you still get to new maps a little underleveled and need to grind, but it’s not overwhelming at all (and I hate to grind, this means a lot!).
The exp curve mobs have is small, so you can farm well on areas 5 to 10 levels below you.

So, I don’t think it’s needed to try a lot of different solutions right now, such as modifying blue mobs. “Copy KR server” is good enough (and would be easier for IMC to do).

3 Likes
Exp Curve and Boss Pacing
#7

Do NOT raise exp gained from exp cards and keep exp from mobs the same… It will become a quest driven game…

6 Likes
#8

That happens when your near lvl 200 and above not at lvl 20. If your going to be spending several days at lvl 50 with a game at lvl 200 cap planning on 500 cap you will have a dead server with in a month period.

3 Likes
#9

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

#10

If the game is build like that then its not worth playing, a game is there for us to enjoy ourselves not torture ourself because the game is badly made.

Also its not even about good or bad lvling build, leveling is just ■■■■, as pryo which is one of the best leveling class due to all the dmg burst lvling is still complete crap, so bad that i rather not play the game rather than slow lvl along. And seriously for anyone who say the exp is ok your just BSing because your not even at lvl 27 set. The grind at lvl 27-30 is like the grind you get toward the latter half of grind base game and rmember this game is currently 200 lvl cap aiming for 500 cap. if the first 15% is this slow try to think how the last 15% will be -.-

1 Like
#11

Currently base level 34, job level 10, Wizard 2nd circle and I already feel a little like giving up on leveling. At this rate a lot of skills will be “useless” I believe, Sleep and Lethargy of Wizard for examples. If you up these skills you won’t have high enough level offensive skills to grind. I really like the game and want to enjoy it but I’m stuck, don’t wanna grind anymore and that is to say I am very used to grinding. But this feels just way too early to grind that hard. :sob:

I think at this rate new players who didn’t know much about ToS will have a high chance of quitting the game before they reach the more creative and interesting contents like classes and skills at rank 3+. (To be honest the early contents feel quite generic).

The game has a lot of contents to offer but currently the grinding makes it feels so repetitive and limited.

Personally I think we should change the required EXP curve, should let players explore the game much easier and faster in early game while keeping the difficulty for late game. Like this players will be given a much better view at first to make them attracted to the game before actually make them have to invest a lot of time and effort into it.

I’m really sleepy now so my apologies for the long winded post.

3 Likes
#12

I’ll be responding to everyone just to keep things organized and concise.

@WalterWhite 3x EXP gain is fine for iCBT, in agree with current OP.
@GenericBadGuy The EXP gain is too slow, in agreement with current OP.

@Narue Again, the issue isn’t that there won’t be grinding in the future, it’s that there is grinding now (20/30), when players have practically just entered the game and have very few skills to utilize, and are in a linear part of the game so they have very few places to go if there is even more than 1 place to go effectively.

If you can provide an argument/point for why the exp gain should be left alone at this point, I’ll add it to the OP.

@Garfy In agreement with OP.

@Satoru KCBT is perfectly fine, there’s grinding, and blue mobs should be exactly like it currently is in kCBT, this has (or will be after this post), been added to the OP.

@robbjharris Currently exp cards are x3 in the kCBT and the game is not quest driven at all, the quests just become sensible but you still grind quite a lot. Changing it to x3 will not remove the grinding phases.

@rexzshadow In agreement with OP.

@cosx774 wants some form of a reset for classes to make the leveling experience easier, possibly skill resets, but not class resets.

@Raine In agreement with OP, change the required EXP per level.

I’ll be adding all this into the OP. If you feel I’ve summarized your post incorrectly, PM me or reply here.

1 Like
#13

He specifically stated “when they get into the hundreds”, so I was refering to that.

@FatePGN I wasn’t even talking about the OP here, I was warning him that at some point the game will become grindy with or without the EXP buff.

Jesus, people.

#14

@Narue Sorry! Since your post had no icon indicating you replied to the person, or an @ PersonsName in the post, I assumed it was a reply to the first post!

#15

@FatePGN It’s okay, no worries. I don’t know why the icon didn’t appear.

#16

Thx for adding to the OP, but please specify I was talking about the EXP gain in general. The way you put it people may interpret that I was talking just about blue monsters.

:c

#17

Edited it to clarify what you said :sunny:

#18

I have to agree with @robbjharris
I don’t mind making the game easier at early levels and there are a lot of solutions to that, but there’s one thing that is extremely important to avoid is making either questing or grinding obsolete by buffing one or the other too much.

#19

Honestly I don’t see why tons of grind would be a bad thing for the game overall. Only time I can see it actually being problematic right now with the 7 day limit. Is this thread directed at the game itself or just how they’re handling the beta?

4 Likes
#20

@Narue adding your suggestion to the OP

@MeteorD at both. There’s no complaint about the grind being there, but at the point at which you grind. Currently it’s practically doing the tutorial and then a couple quests before you hit an abysmal grind in 1/2 maps, while your underleveled, and get gear above your level, and quests with bosses 15 levels ahead. It messes with the scaling. Grinding is fine at a later stage in the game.