Can you explain why? Just because SR has so low or non single target damage that makes it inappropiate for current end game?
Reasons one might be running low on SP with SRs:
- Not using Lv.15 Condensed SP Potions.
- Not carrying a NPC Small SP Potion for using Glass Moles.
- Going Rogue-SR builds expecting to use no SP potions because youâre not using Glass Moles.
Reasons one might be having way too low damage with SRs:
- Having ping higher than 300ms+ and not understanding Attack Speed is ping-reliant.
- Being undergeared or thinking SR only consists of Limacon and nothing more (not even buffs, cards or debuffs).
- Taking too much damage or playing in a too much defensive way so you lose the consistent damage the class offers.
Or, in a summary:
You might be playing the class wrong. Or estimating the investment/weapon power in a way you shouldnât.
Iâve been running Velcoffer with people using +15 T10 Masinios Pistol and it was very fine (they were using Plate Sets, so little bonus from armor set). Itâs really viable for end-game if you know what youâre doing and what to expect.
Donât get hit, you can jump near the end of the cast bar to Destroy Magic Circles and you wonât receive the SP drain.
Since this is the only thing from your post which is probably correct, Iâd ask, why the â â â â donât you have max level attributes on your main? What are you doing?
If you think an entire class sucks because you donât want to invest in it, then none of the classes you play will be any good. Thatâs not a class problem, thatâs a you problem.
Some of these players are too busy complaining about peopleâs hard earned gear. Some of these players donât want to invest time on an MMO(which they canât gain any progress to compete against another player unless they spend effort hehexd). Some of these players want to be spoon fed. Some of these players donât like earning silver.
Some of these playersâŚ
I drink pots non stop on any class that I use chapparitions or glass moles with. Thatâs what youâre supposed to do
I can agree itâs somewhat of a random nerf, though. If anything, this should have happened like a week after it was buffed but apparently, it was delayed and SR lost its popularity for several reasons that I wonât go into. It was silly that the range is kind of literally off your screen unless you have zoomy addon. Thereâs probably quite a few classes with over/undertuned skills that need a bit of tweaking. Hopefully one of many changes.
In content like challenge mode and Velcofferâs Nest, the nerf does nothing. Seems like SR damage isnât too bad in Velcoffer with retreat shot. I run it as well and believe it or not, Iâm top dps in my party somehow (+19 aspana t10) with like 70 limacon attribute. Itâs not really much of a problem is what Iâm saying. If you donât like it so much, use one of the rank resets from one of the several opportunities of obtaining them (free in mail, daily event, change last rank to pied piper and reset).
Whattttt? I got nothing against any whales. You simply made a huge impression in my entire TOS group (about 16 people or so?) because the frequency of you pinging your regard horn crossbow and some other +2x masinios pistol is so high that altho none of us played with you, we all know you.
Disgruntled? Really? LOL because you have a +2x in game pistol in a Korean grindy MMO and I donât?
LMFAO I completely ran out of words here, I got to admit I did NOT expect you to show me your Bernice ranking to defend that âSR3 > other AA archers variantâ. Sure big â â â â randybk why not?
⌠Please tell me exactly what ârotationsâ are there for a SR. You talk like you have a lot of skills to ârotateâ but in fact you donât. SR has 3 skills that actually does something, Marching Fire, Retreat Shot, and Limacon. Two of them donât make any sense whatsoever in a boss fight and the other is a buff ⌠meaning, you will mostly just cast all your buffs and auto attack till the thing die.
Silver bullet, Overestimate (Most other buffs last for 300 sec) and just stand there.
Just auto-attacking with Limacon and the spread attribute turn on, you still run out of SP fairly quickly with 0 SPR investment.
Nobody cares if you care dude. The debate here is if nerfing SRâs marching fire outside of PVP makes sense.
I have no problems drinking pots non stop to proc chapp/glassmoles, thatâs certainly a legitimate playstyle. I only said that ârunning out of spâ on a SR is fairy easy and common, not everybody likes to use glassmoles x 3 and not doing exactly this doesnât mean you play the class âwrongâ. Plenty of people use monkey + bite combo and they donât benefit from SP pots chucking.
And I havenât been playing a SR for a long time so I really donât care tbh (now a happy BM who went from 3 to 1 in all my velcoffer group). I simply donât see why IMC puts up some random SR nerf when most other changes in the recent archer balance update are buff.
@Csiko
LOL ?? First off, I donât have a SR main, I used to play a SR but I donât anymore. Second, WHAT does attribute level have anything to do with what we are talking about here? Argument here is if this random SR 40% range nerf in PVE is justified.
Point is someone with whale gears like a +40 pistol blowing everything up should not make the class âOPâ. Nerfing the PVP portion of this skill makes sense, nerfing the skill for PVE doesnât because thatâs what the class is good at.
Caracole is actually pretty strong if you get to use to AoE a lot of mobs with the spread attribute.
Retreat Shot is pretty strong in boss fights as well, Marching Fire maybe not because it locks your AA and other skills.
And here we go back to my post:
As a main SR since before open beta (started on kTOS), Marching Fire SR nerf is pretty fine. Learn to play the class.
And no, I donât have a +20 weapon nor plan to in the short-medium term.
EDIT:
Also, if SP is really a problem you can turn off Limacon Spread attribute to save SP on boss fights, you donât need it on Velcoffer or etc. It will reduce SP usage from 20 to 17 per attack. Same applies for a lot more skills in the game, especially Linker builds for farming, you donât need all JP attributes enabled all the time.
Knowing how mechanics works, how to deal with SP usage and like, actually knowing limitations and advantages of the class you play are part of the game.
Unless itâs âtoo much workâ or ânot everyone likes to enable/disable attributes, not everyone likes to use SP potionsâ, then pick an (even more) braindead class.
Well arenât we all glad that you arenât the developer of this game?
Proofs are not âreal proofâ apparently so I donât think anyone can proof anything now. While the RMT portion is controversial (popcorn) , I donât think thereâs anything wrong for me to say that only 1% of the SR in the North America server can do what randybk is doing. If anything he should feel special about this?
You think throwing in personal insult makes your point valid? You just disagree to disagree donât you? COMPARATIVELY speaking, SR3 has no viable single target skill other than auto attacking with Limacon. SRâs main two skills are AOE skills that donât necessary shine against single target. I am not going to other bow class, but letâs compare another pistol class here:
@Heavenpiercer here is some simple math for you as well
In terms of autoattack:
SR3
lvl 16 Limacon (+1 from Masinios Pistol) = 200% additional damage
lvl 100 Limacon: Enhance = 60% increased total damage
Total Damage = 100% + (200% * 160%) = 420%
QS3 BM
lvl 9 Running Shot (+3 from Masinios Crossbow and +1 from Deadborn Scap Archer Gem) = 320% additional damage
lvl 5 Double Gun Stance = 50% additional damage
Total Damage = 470%
With a lv100 attribute on Limacon it still loses against running shot by quite some margin⌠Feel free to check my math here.
In terms of skills:
Marching Fire/ Retreat Shot cannot and should not be compared with skills like Mozambique Drill that has 50% defense ignore and 5 overheat on a 15sec cooldown⌠Now I am not saying Marching Fire/Retreat Shot are not great skills. They are great, but just not great against single target and are easily outshine by a ton of other more single target focused skills.
People like you and @Seiran/@Csiko are all arguing about the same thing. âYou donât invest enoughâ.
Yes you can invest as much as you can and become a whale like randyBK, no one ever said you canât. But with the same amount of investment, you get way better outcomes from other classes, and this random SR nerf certainly doesnât help.
Well, most SRs who actually posted on this thread have pretty similar results to Randy if they try to (considering gear limits).
About that topic claiming Randy RMTed his gear. You should go back to the Policy RMT thread and see the drama from the start.
After knowing the drama youâll know how and why that person edited that screenshot. And the fotoforensics analysis done by Crevox? I think that shows the edited portions of the image.
That topic is fake and there are many proofs that shows so.
You know you can Retreat Shot inside the boss Damage Box while you AA with Limacon right? (You can also use walls.)
And SR isnât all about Limacon. If you add Retreat Shot to rotation with Glass Mole you will probably have higher damage. Especially if you consider the extra peaks from Blindside and FMJ.
I actually donât have Lv.100 attributes on my SR because I like to invest on all my alts and play with them. My previous weapon was a pleb +16 Aspana thatâs just as weak as a +11 Primus nowadays. Iâm in the process of making a new one but thatâs halted because Iâm afraid of anvil RNG.
Like I said, go learn to play the class (and the game).
What is this? Why do you care? I never said he really RMT, I said I recognized him from the RMT post and I specifically said âor notâ because there were back and forward so-called âproofsâ there. Donât be so triggered, I donât know him or you and I could careless.
Like I said, you have 3 main skills (feel free to feel smart and tell me how Caracole is useful again, I am just gonna straight up ignore this comment).
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Limacon already got outclassed in terms of AA damage even with lv100 attribute on.
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Retreat shot and Marching fire can do great damage but I highly doubt it will do more than Limacon AA against a single target, especially when you are in a velcoffer team setting with additional AA buff like lastrite/enchant lightning/enchant fire/the new zhendu.
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Even if you somehow do figure out some combos to out damage yourself, you still get outclassed by single target focused skills like Mozambique Drill. BM1âs FMJ has long weird casting animation (even with the cancel trick) and if you really want to bring this to the table, BM2 can take 10 ranks of the exact same skill.
Simple fact is, SR doesnât have a strong compatible R9, thatâs why many people bail on BM1 and go for Rogue1/2 instead for even more AA power (and you are sacrificing a r9 spot for a rank5 class). The class is lacking single damage compare to other meta builds no matter how you slice/combo it. Now that 1 out of 3 of the skills that this class uses is getting nerfed in PVE for no reason at all and the class gets no other buff, this deserves some attention. Sure you can invest, but you can also invest the same amount for better combination and achieve better outcomes, itâs as simply as that.
These are all very objective facts and I have no idea how it kept making you think people donât know how to use lv15 sp pots/use the wall for retreat shot/invest into a good weapon and attributes⌠This also makes me question if you truly are trying to have a discussion here about the subject âmarching fireâs aoe nerfâ, or you just disagree to disagree because you have nothing to do and you appear on almost every.single.post literally going back and forward with others that the GM has to ask you to go PM each other.
I am gonna stop responding to you regardless. I didnât start this post anyway? I only agreed that the SRâs PVE nerf is not justified. Donât know how this one simple thing is so hard to understand.
To be fair, the first post you did was literally this one:
Then you talked about whales(this is actually a stupid concept tbh imo) and rmt abit.
Dont lie when clearly your replies are an attempt to elicit a certain response or reaction from others.
Why link a random forum post about an alleged rmt(fake btw if you read it)??
Its because you were trying to get a reaction from others. You were clearly trying to imply something in a lazy manner.
You yourself say that you havenât played sr in a long time and are not an sr main.
So when an actual sr main replies, you literally just dismiss it as a joke.
The nerf was needed in pvp yes, but outside of pvp nerf can be debated. Personally i would say its ok, since its still a strong skill and just tones down on an already strong skill.
Also im not sure why you keep comparing different classes and skill factors. Not all classes will have the same strength and skill factor. Sure bm might be good for aa builds or whatever. But it loses the mobility of mounts. Remember every class has a different specialization.
Currently sr is still way better at farming in open fields/maps just because of it being mounted and able to drive by to pick off mobs as part of its nature.
Not everyone who disagrees with you is just doing it to disagree with you. Remember, you were the one who tried to start stupid â â â â first (see your own first reply).
Tbh still playing it, switched when the reset came from my falcon so i could play more relaxed, and well, im not finishing my mana.
Iâm gearing for velco now so iâve lost around 50-60spr from gear. With around 70spr from all my equips combined i need several minutes before my SP bar empties.
When i had 130-140spr some days ago it was basically never dropping.
Generally i would say the SP nerf was probably needed, iâve played doppel and falcon and had to burn one lv15 mana pot every cooldown.
Even if you use skills to damage or farm faster your sp will drop way slower than other classes since the spells are from lower ranks.
TL;DR: who says the nerf was bad either didnât play this class or was spoiled by it for too long, since basically everyone else is spamming pots 24/7.
All you did by posting this was showing that you donât even play this game.
Investing isnât whaling you literal mouthbreather, donât @ me.
The argument of majority, like all your other arguments, is not an argument. All were saying earth was flat, were they right ? And even tho, we all agree on that, youâre alone sir. I donât get why you say âallâ when youâre alone lol. And Iâm not talking about what I would do to balance the game, itâs what all damn companies are doing to balance a game⌠Where did you see it was my way to balance ToS ?
What you think =/= what is true.
Itâs not an insult at all⌠IRL you have the right to be ignorant, being ignorant is better than being delusional, but as you are both⌠IDK.
And so do you need single target skill when you have Limacon ? Iâm not saying they are the best at single target damages, but they are not bad it is viable. And you forget end game content in PvE means Thaumaturges and Enchanters, ChaplainsâŚ
Which comes back to:
Which came out to be:
What in the â â â â ? If it lacks single target damage, how did I rank high in Bernice? Not only did I have to wittle down 2m+ HP mobs in the stage 30 levels, I had to shred 100m+ HP worth of bosses to get there, and you certainly cannot do that with Auto-attacks, only.
Why would you exclude Retreat Shot out of this? That just told us you have no damn clue on how SR Rotations work. Youâre suppose to combine not just the Blindside debuff + Devaluate for decreased defense, but use Retreat shot in conjunction with Limacon to maximize your damage on an SR. What other ârotations?â What other classes are you playing besides SR? Use your other skills. Why would you stand there and just auto attack with Limacon until your other SR skills are not up? You have plenty of other useful skills to help you and your party:
Now tell me how Running shot can out damage both Retreat and Limacon? Sure, itâs 10 seconds with 30 seconds of CD. But, oh wait!
Apparently we are getting another buff to SR which I think isnât needed imo due to the class being fine the way it is. But with the 10 seconds remaining, I have other skills that out damages running shot while Retreat Shot is going off CD. Maybe you should try doing the math on Retreat Shotâs damage?
Iâm currently a BM2 now for TBL memes, and Mozambique is definitely really strong with Critical shot debuff. Itâd definitely go well with Running shot in terms of consistent damage. I have it at 100 attribute that I got from Marching Fire, but honestly, to maximize these damage even further, Iâd throw in appraiser and ranger1 in there, if you want to maximize single target damage. Unfortunately, Iâd still stick with SR3 due to the versatility of my build. You can rag and shake off SR3 all you want. But judging from all your replies about SR and its rotations, youâre definitely playing the class wrong. There are definitely a bunch of invested archers out there, including QS3 BM2. Hell, thereâs one with an even better pistol AND better gear than mine.
Also, as some posts stated above: you definitely started this discussion. I gave my answer for the SP drain which is true. If youâre running out of SP by just using Limacon and SP pots, thereâs obviously something youâre doing wrong. I waste more SP using all of BM2 skills, attributes included.
EDIT:
Then why mention some variant of a wizard build to me? You literally said:
To which I said:
On about Marching fire. It definitely was broken in PVP. I donât really care if it the range is nerfed or not in PVE. But If I were given a choice, Iâd keep it in PVE.
not really, there are many classes that are low investment and great usefullness.
Yeah, like clerics and support wizard. That doesnât explain pure DPS classes.
Because youâre spreading misinformation and thatâs all. Just leaving it in the thread could confuse readers so I wanted to add my comment.
Question:
You are comparing Limacon to Running Shot alone, without DGS you donât have the +50%, so 420% total.
So why do you exclude other skills from the math when talking about SR when it was never meant to be an AA-only class?
You use Retreat Shot and Limacon.
Except your SR build also has more skills than just Limacon.
And thatâs why their build sucks usually. SR isnât meant to be Limacon-only.
If you donât want to learn to play the class, go play a braindead one instead.
The mechanic is broken and thatâs a good reason.
On rank10 Retreat Shot and Marching Fire gets cooldown reduced.
Yeah, just make 30 Ele3 Warlock3 characters sharing the same gear.
Because you, by yourself, totally forgot you can use Retreat Shot with Limacon and thought it can only be used alone, thatâs already a fact showing you donât know how to use it.
I question the same about you, donât worry. If you simply look at the previous Marching Fire mechanic itâs broken to hit the entire screen like that.
Because I dislike people posting misinformation and will keep doing so. Once we reach a point where itâs no longer misinformation but simply things to disagree I can stop posting.
I think the GM (and everyone) prefers someone to answer to misinformation rather than to leave it running out uncontrolled. Although I overdo it and Iâm not glad of it but whatever.
See Mikumoâs post, so I donât need to quote your post and etc.
Yikes, honestly Iâm not sure why this thread is so heated.
I agree the Marching fire nerf was probably needed for pvp (getting hit offscreen is kind of dumb if you ask me), and its range in pve was pretty silly anyways, since you can only tag and aggro so many mobs so its not that huge of a deal in my opinion, especially since after the nerf the range is still good.
Yay for future SR buffs though, Retreat Shot being such a short cd sounds pretty awesome if you ask me.