Some of these players are too busy complaining about people’s hard earned gear. Some of these players don’t want to invest time on an MMO(which they can’t gain any progress to compete against another player unless they spend effort hehexd). Some of these players want to be spoon fed. Some of these players don’t like earning silver.
Some of these players…
I drink pots non stop on any class that I use chapparitions or glass moles with. That’s what you’re supposed to do 
I can agree it’s somewhat of a random nerf, though. If anything, this should have happened like a week after it was buffed but apparently, it was delayed and SR lost its popularity for several reasons that I won’t go into. It was silly that the range is kind of literally off your screen unless you have zoomy addon. There’s probably quite a few classes with over/undertuned skills that need a bit of tweaking. Hopefully one of many changes.
In content like challenge mode and Velcoffer’s Nest, the nerf does nothing. Seems like SR damage isn’t too bad in Velcoffer with retreat shot. I run it as well and believe it or not, I’m top dps in my party somehow (+19 aspana t10) with like 70 limacon attribute. It’s not really much of a problem is what I’m saying. If you don’t like it so much, use one of the rank resets from one of the several opportunities of obtaining them (free in mail, daily event, change last rank to pied piper and reset).
Whattttt? I got nothing against any whales. You simply made a huge impression in my entire TOS group (about 16 people or so?) because the frequency of you pinging your regard horn crossbow and some other +2x masinios pistol is so high that altho none of us played with you, we all know you.
Disgruntled? Really? LOL because you have a +2x in game pistol in a Korean grindy MMO and I don’t?
LMFAO 
I completely ran out of words here, I got to admit I did NOT expect you to show me your Bernice ranking to defend that “SR3 > other AA archers variant”. Sure big ■■■■ randybk why not?
… Please tell me exactly what “rotations” are there for a SR. You talk like you have a lot of skills to “rotate” but in fact you don’t. SR has 3 skills that actually does something, Marching Fire, Retreat Shot, and Limacon. Two of them don’t make any sense whatsoever in a boss fight and the other is a buff … meaning, you will mostly just cast all your buffs and auto attack till the thing die.
Silver bullet, Overestimate (Most other buffs last for 300 sec) and just stand there.
Just auto-attacking with Limacon and the spread attribute turn on, you still run out of SP fairly quickly with 0 SPR investment.
Nobody cares if you care dude. The debate here is if nerfing SR’s marching fire outside of PVP makes sense.
I have no problems drinking pots non stop to proc chapp/glassmoles, that’s certainly a legitimate playstyle. I only said that “running out of sp” on a SR is fairy easy and common, not everybody likes to use glassmoles x 3 and not doing exactly this doesn’t mean you play the class “wrong”. Plenty of people use monkey + bite combo and they don’t benefit from SP pots chucking.
And I haven’t been playing a SR for a long time so I really don’t care tbh (now a happy BM who went from 3 to 1 in all my velcoffer group). I simply don’t see why IMC puts up some random SR nerf when most other changes in the recent archer balance update are buff.
@Csiko
LOL ?? First off, I don’t have a SR main, I used to play a SR but I don’t anymore. Second, WHAT does attribute level have anything to do with what we are talking about here? Argument here is if this random SR 40% range nerf in PVE is justified.
Point is someone with whale gears like a +40 pistol blowing everything up should not make the class “OP”. Nerfing the PVP portion of this skill makes sense, nerfing the skill for PVE doesn’t because that’s what the class is good at.
Caracole is actually pretty strong if you get to use to AoE a lot of mobs with the spread attribute.
Retreat Shot is pretty strong in boss fights as well, Marching Fire maybe not because it locks your AA and other skills.
And here we go back to my post:
As a main SR since before open beta (started on kTOS), Marching Fire SR nerf is pretty fine. Learn to play the class.
And no, I don’t have a +20 weapon nor plan to in the short-medium term.
EDIT:
Also, if SP is really a problem you can turn off Limacon Spread attribute to save SP on boss fights, you don’t need it on Velcoffer or etc. It will reduce SP usage from 20 to 17 per attack. Same applies for a lot more skills in the game, especially Linker builds for farming, you don’t need all JP attributes enabled all the time.
Knowing how mechanics works, how to deal with SP usage and like, actually knowing limitations and advantages of the class you play are part of the game.
Unless it’s “too much work” or “not everyone likes to enable/disable attributes, not everyone likes to use SP potions”, then pick an (even more) braindead class.
Well aren’t we all glad that you aren’t the developer of this game?
Proofs are not “real proof” apparently so I don’t think anyone can proof anything now. While the RMT portion is controversial (popcorn) , I don’t think there’s anything wrong for me to say that only 1% of the SR in the North America server can do what randybk is doing. If anything he should feel special about this?
You think throwing in personal insult makes your point valid? You just disagree to disagree don’t you? COMPARATIVELY speaking, SR3 has no viable single target skill other than auto attacking with Limacon. SR’s main two skills are AOE skills that don’t necessary shine against single target. I am not going to other bow class, but let’s compare another pistol class here:
@Heavenpiercer here is some simple math for you as well
In terms of autoattack:
SR3
lvl 16 Limacon (+1 from Masinios Pistol) = 200% additional damage
lvl 100 Limacon: Enhance = 60% increased total damage
Total Damage = 100% + (200% * 160%) = 420%
QS3 BM
lvl 9 Running Shot (+3 from Masinios Crossbow and +1 from Deadborn Scap Archer Gem) = 320% additional damage
lvl 5 Double Gun Stance = 50% additional damage
Total Damage = 470%
With a lv100 attribute on Limacon it still loses against running shot by quite some margin… Feel free to check my math here.
In terms of skills:
Marching Fire/ Retreat Shot cannot and should not be compared with skills like Mozambique Drill that has 50% defense ignore and 5 overheat on a 15sec cooldown… Now I am not saying Marching Fire/Retreat Shot are not great skills. They are great, but just not great against single target and are easily outshine by a ton of other more single target focused skills.
People like you and @Seiran/@Csiko are all arguing about the same thing. “You don’t invest enough”.
Yes you can invest as much as you can and become a whale like randyBK, no one ever said you can’t. But with the same amount of investment, you get way better outcomes from other classes, and this random SR nerf certainly doesn’t help.
Well, most SRs who actually posted on this thread have pretty similar results to Randy if they try to (considering gear limits).
About that topic claiming Randy RMTed his gear. You should go back to the Policy RMT thread and see the drama from the start.
After knowing the drama you’ll know how and why that person edited that screenshot. And the fotoforensics analysis done by Crevox? I think that shows the edited portions of the image.
That topic is fake and there are many proofs that shows so.
You know you can Retreat Shot inside the boss Damage Box while you AA with Limacon right? (You can also use walls.)
And SR isn’t all about Limacon. If you add Retreat Shot to rotation with Glass Mole you will probably have higher damage. Especially if you consider the extra peaks from Blindside and FMJ.
I actually don’t have Lv.100 attributes on my SR because I like to invest on all my alts and play with them. My previous weapon was a pleb +16 Aspana that’s just as weak as a +11 Primus nowadays. I’m in the process of making a new one but that’s halted because I’m afraid of anvil RNG.
Like I said, go learn to play the class (and the game).
What is this? Why do you care? I never said he really RMT, I said I recognized him from the RMT post and I specifically said “or not” because there were back and forward so-called “proofs” there. Don’t be so triggered, I don’t know him or you and I could careless.
Like I said, you have 3 main skills (feel free to feel smart and tell me how Caracole is useful again, I am just gonna straight up ignore this comment).
Limacon already got outclassed in terms of AA damage even with lv100 attribute on.
Retreat shot and Marching fire can do great damage but I highly doubt it will do more than Limacon AA against a single target, especially when you are in a velcoffer team setting with additional AA buff like lastrite/enchant lightning/enchant fire/the new zhendu.
Even if you somehow do figure out some combos to out damage yourself, you still get outclassed by single target focused skills like Mozambique Drill. BM1’s FMJ has long weird casting animation (even with the cancel trick) and if you really want to bring this to the table, BM2 can take 10 ranks of the exact same skill.
Simple fact is, SR doesn’t have a strong compatible R9, that’s why many people bail on BM1 and go for Rogue1/2 instead for even more AA power (and you are sacrificing a r9 spot for a rank5 class). The class is lacking single damage compare to other meta builds no matter how you slice/combo it. Now that 1 out of 3 of the skills that this class uses is getting nerfed in PVE for no reason at all and the class gets no other buff, this deserves some attention. Sure you can invest, but you can also invest the same amount for better combination and achieve better outcomes, it’s as simply as that.
These are all very objective facts and I have no idea how it kept making you think people don’t know how to use lv15 sp pots/use the wall for retreat shot/invest into a good weapon and attributes… This also makes me question if you truly are trying to have a discussion here about the subject “marching fire’s aoe nerf”, or you just disagree to disagree because you have nothing to do and you appear on almost every.single.post literally going back and forward with others that the GM has to ask you to go PM each other.
I am gonna stop responding to you regardless. I didn’t start this post anyway? I only agreed that the SR’s PVE nerf is not justified. Don’t know how this one simple thing is so hard to understand.
To be fair, the first post you did was literally this one:
Then you talked about whales(this is actually a stupid concept tbh imo) and rmt abit.
Dont lie when clearly your replies are an attempt to elicit a certain response or reaction from others.
Why link a random forum post about an alleged rmt(fake btw if you read it)??
Its because you were trying to get a reaction from others. You were clearly trying to imply something in a lazy manner.
You yourself say that you haven’t played sr in a long time and are not an sr main.
So when an actual sr main replies, you literally just dismiss it as a joke.
The nerf was needed in pvp yes, but outside of pvp nerf can be debated. Personally i would say its ok, since its still a strong skill and just tones down on an already strong skill.
Also im not sure why you keep comparing different classes and skill factors. Not all classes will have the same strength and skill factor. Sure bm might be good for aa builds or whatever. But it loses the mobility of mounts. Remember every class has a different specialization.
Currently sr is still way better at farming in open fields/maps just because of it being mounted and able to drive by to pick off mobs as part of its nature.
Not everyone who disagrees with you is just doing it to disagree with you. Remember, you were the one who tried to start stupid ■■■■ first (see your own first reply).
Tbh still playing it, switched when the reset came from my falcon so i could play more relaxed, and well, im not finishing my mana.
I’m gearing for velco now so i’ve lost around 50-60spr from gear. With around 70spr from all my equips combined i need several minutes before my SP bar empties.
When i had 130-140spr some days ago it was basically never dropping.
Generally i would say the SP nerf was probably needed, i’ve played doppel and falcon and had to burn one lv15 mana pot every cooldown.
Even if you use skills to damage or farm faster your sp will drop way slower than other classes since the spells are from lower ranks.
TL;DR: who says the nerf was bad either didn’t play this class or was spoiled by it for too long, since basically everyone else is spamming pots 24/7.
All you did by posting this was showing that you don’t even play this game.
Investing isn’t whaling you literal mouthbreather, don’t @ me.
The argument of majority, like all your other arguments, is not an argument. All were saying earth was flat, were they right ? And even tho, we all agree on that, you’re alone sir. I don’t get why you say “all” when you’re alone lol. And I’m not talking about what I would do to balance the game, it’s what all damn companies are doing to balance a game… Where did you see it was my way to balance ToS ?
What you think =/= what is true.
It’s not an insult at all… IRL you have the right to be ignorant, being ignorant is better than being delusional, but as you are both… IDK.
And so do you need single target skill when you have Limacon ? I’m not saying they are the best at single target damages, but they are not bad it is viable. And you forget end game content in PvE means Thaumaturges and Enchanters, Chaplains…
Which comes back to:
What in the ■■■■? If it lacks single target damage, how did I rank high in Bernice? Not only did I have to wittle down 2m+ HP mobs in the stage 30 levels, I had to shred 100m+ HP worth of bosses to get there, and you certainly cannot do that with Auto-attacks, only.
Why would you exclude Retreat Shot out of this? That just told us you have no damn clue on how SR Rotations work. You’re suppose to combine not just the Blindside debuff + Devaluate for decreased defense, but use Retreat shot in conjunction with Limacon to maximize your damage on an SR. What other “rotations?” What other classes are you playing besides SR? Use your other skills. Why would you stand there and just auto attack with Limacon until your other SR skills are not up? You have plenty of other useful skills to help you and your party:
Now tell me how Running shot can out damage both Retreat and Limacon? Sure, it’s 10 seconds with 30 seconds of CD. But, oh wait!
Apparently we are getting another buff to SR which I think isn’t needed imo due to the class being fine the way it is. But with the 10 seconds remaining, I have other skills that out damages running shot while Retreat Shot is going off CD. Maybe you should try doing the math on Retreat Shot’s damage?
I’m currently a BM2 now for TBL memes, and Mozambique is definitely really strong with Critical shot debuff. It’d definitely go well with Running shot in terms of consistent damage. I have it at 100 attribute that I got from Marching Fire, but honestly, to maximize these damage even further, I’d throw in appraiser and ranger1 in there, if you want to maximize single target damage. Unfortunately, I’d still stick with SR3 due to the versatility of my build. You can rag and shake off SR3 all you want. But judging from all your replies about SR and its rotations, you’re definitely playing the class wrong. There are definitely a bunch of invested archers out there, including QS3 BM2. Hell, there’s one with an even better pistol AND better gear than mine.
Also, as some posts stated above: you definitely started this discussion. I gave my answer for the SP drain which is true. If you’re running out of SP by just using Limacon and SP pots, there’s obviously something you’re doing wrong. I waste more SP using all of BM2 skills, attributes included.
EDIT:
Then why mention some variant of a wizard build to me? You literally said:
To which I said:
On about Marching fire. It definitely was broken in PVP. I don’t really care if it the range is nerfed or not in PVE. But If I were given a choice, I’d keep it in PVE.
not really, there are many classes that are low investment and great usefullness.
Yeah, like clerics and support wizard. That doesn’t explain pure DPS classes.
Because you’re spreading misinformation and that’s all. Just leaving it in the thread could confuse readers so I wanted to add my comment.
Question:
You are comparing Limacon to Running Shot alone, without DGS you don’t have the +50%, so 420% total.
So why do you exclude other skills from the math when talking about SR when it was never meant to be an AA-only class?
You use Retreat Shot and Limacon.
Except your SR build also has more skills than just Limacon.
And that’s why their build sucks usually. SR isn’t meant to be Limacon-only.
If you don’t want to learn to play the class, go play a braindead one instead.
The mechanic is broken and that’s a good reason.
On rank10 Retreat Shot and Marching Fire gets cooldown reduced.
Yeah, just make 30 Ele3 Warlock3 characters sharing the same gear.
Because you, by yourself, totally forgot you can use Retreat Shot with Limacon and thought it can only be used alone, that’s already a fact showing you don’t know how to use it.
I question the same about you, don’t worry. If you simply look at the previous Marching Fire mechanic it’s broken to hit the entire screen like that.
Because I dislike people posting misinformation and will keep doing so. Once we reach a point where it’s no longer misinformation but simply things to disagree I can stop posting.
I think the GM (and everyone) prefers someone to answer to misinformation rather than to leave it running out uncontrolled. Although I overdo it and I’m not glad of it but whatever.
See Mikumo’s post, so I don’t need to quote your post and etc.
Yikes, honestly I’m not sure why this thread is so heated.
I agree the Marching fire nerf was probably needed for pvp (getting hit offscreen is kind of dumb if you ask me), and its range in pve was pretty silly anyways, since you can only tag and aggro so many mobs so its not that huge of a deal in my opinion, especially since after the nerf the range is still good.
Yay for future SR buffs though, Retreat Shot being such a short cd sounds pretty awesome if you ask me.
Spreading misinformation? This is literally public information. Did I start the RMT thread? No. Did I come up with the photo? No. I merely saw the same post 2-3 times and referenced it here.
Misinformation? No, it started with a reason. Controversial? Ok.
What the ■■■■? Seriously? You can’t use your BM’s skill (including AA with your GUN) without activating DRG, that’s why it’s necessary to include DRG. I wasn’t even putting other unrelated buffs in there lmao
If Limacon can pair with DRG I would gladly include it in and I am sure if that happens, you’d get a huge surge of people to reset into a SR. Truth is, Limacon somehow doesn’t work with most of the BM’s skill, including DRG. That’s why BM1 doesn’t really fit SR3 that well.
So this is what it is huh? Ele3Warlock3 are braindead and you feel so special about knowing how to play a SR (roll my eyes…)
Am I talking to a cow here??? Did you ever read??
Did I ever say you can’t use Retreat Shot with Limacon together? Or use SP potion with Glassmole? Or invest money into more attribute points?
I said no matter what you do your damage gets outclassed with the same amount of investment, in the current end game content.
You don’t have to agree to this but please don’t make me repeat myself again. PLEASE READ
Other than the RMT post there isn’t any possible misinformation here. SR lacks single damage comparatively, lacks a good R9 class as most of BM1 skills can’t be used while riding.
Yes, you did. Why don’t you read your own information?
So tell us, what are the 2 skills that don’t make sense in a boss fight, that you listed, right here.
You can use Tase, Smash Bullet, Silver Bullet, Napalm Bullet and FMJ without needing to use DGS on an SR. R.I.P. is an underwhelming skill, and so is Bloody overdrive unless you’re a BM2. Napalm is obviously a point waster, too. Obviously silver bullet is good with limacon and retreat combo.
Lol, and this guy said
