Your forgetting about the doctrine of reasonable expectations act. Companies cannot put whatever they want into a contract, it can be challange and overturned.
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TLDR, OP:“Waaa I am behind in the game so I have wishful thinking that they cannot resolve this issue via server log queries and bans and I hope that they wipe so I can get another stab at not being a garbage level player even though they have no grounds or necessity to wipe and cannot afford the refunds or player loss from said wipe”
Im not forgetting it. Its just not relevant, games wipe. Its not common but it is something that happens occasionally when things are bad enough. They wouldnt be in breach for using a practice that occurs in their field.
It is reasonable to expect persistent data. The game is not tagged as early access or beta. I would argue that it would have to give a disclaimer that data could be wiped for it to be valid.
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The presidence already exists for wiping. So your grasping at straws here.
Edit: @Rubiss You should let @skribble352 handle this he seems like he has a decent understanding for this sort of stuff.
And what exactly is the presidence for wiping? Not once since the game has been listed publicly on Steam has their been a wipe.
EDIT: In fact, the FAQ link listed in the store page points to the announcement (which was amended in another announcement) in which a staff member says there will be no wipe. So if you want to be technical, there is information about wiping on the store page and it explicitly says no.
Original (pointed to by the store page)
And amended (which directly references what the store page points to)
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IDK, why you 2 keep bumping this useless thread. Just let it die already. Wipe isnt going to happen, if there was any possibility of it happening it would of happened a day ago.
Actually they can. Why do you think there is a 48 hour wait to get your silver from the market?
The silver doesn’t need to be deleted. It is silver that was legitimately acquired by the people who bought the tokens, and if it hadn’t been spent on those tokens it would have been spent on something else so this has a grand total of 0 effect on the economy, the silver already existed it is just in someone else’s account now
Yeah, lets look at the logic behind this. I am a scammer who now has 1 billion gold. I buy a trash material on the market for 1 billion gold. What is the percentage chance that the account that sold that item is my main? I’d say 99.9%, most people aren’t nice enough to commit a crime and then give away their money to a random stranger.
Really? Because all of their announcements clearly say this is not an OBT and there will be no wipes, so if they lied and wipe the server they could face several lawsuits for breach of contract, as well as mass desertion by all the players mad about losing their time and money as well as being lied to.
Hahahahaha, no. Tokens are able to be bought and sold for a reason, too much of the game is locked behind tokens to make them unobtainable to people who aren’t rich, this would be by far one of the worst business decisions they could make.
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That first link is worthless because it doesn’t talk about wipes anywhere in his post.
That second one i don’t see on the steam page at all.
Beyond that it still wouldn’t matter try to remember who you signed your contract with. Steam/Valve not IMC, The information steam provides for the product is accurate, if you had a direct contract with IMC* you would have a point but that is not the case.
More then likely not. Rubiss is just attempting to understand contracts.
*Corrected ToS to IMC my bad.
The information about the product would fail to be accurate because the store page, through a link which was amended, states that there would not be a wipe, so if there was one, which there won’t be, then it is not accurate to what is shown to the user. This isn’t a hard concept to grasp.
Remember when i said you signed a contract with Steam/Valve and not IMC. Read the steam contract you signed and youll see why that doesn’t work like that.
What the problem is, your expectation of bad enough and mine are two different things. Have they exhausted every other option? No. It’s reasonable to except that wiping on a knee jerky reaction Is considered unreasonable and not binding in the least.
Thats fair, at that point it would all depend on what they could find for history of other mmos reasons for wiping. But i image large economy damage from currency exploits would not be hard to find references for.
I have already read the subscriber agreement and I am aware that by buying a game through Steam, I have entered a contract with Valve. Tree of Savior is not subscription based, so I am not in a contract with them. It doesn’t change the fact that should a wipe occur, that I entered the contract under false pretenses.
As Section 7 of the Subscriber Agreement says, the user is responsible for gathering product information as it is available on Steam. The information in question includes a link to a resource which was then amended (before any type of transaction had occurred mind you, meaning the amendment does not require the consent of all parties entering the contract as nothing has been signed yet). The amendment states that going into F2P, there will be no wipes. So if the information I gathered through the store page is incorrect then you can figure out the rest.
EDIT: Furthermore the exploit has not caused any large economical damage as no new silver was generated through the method and the prices on the server have not fluctuated in any way that could be considered damaging as a result of the exploit. I don’t think they’re going to have an easy time finding the references they need considering the economy in the game is far from damaged.
Finally you never did explain what the presidence was for wiping.
Soooooo you just decided to ignore the section on 3rd party information that is very clearly labeled.
“Valve makes no representations or warranties, either express or implied, regarding any third party site.”
This comes shortly after them saying they may link to sites on their store pages.
AKA any information 3rd party means nothing. And by the agreement of the contract 3rd party is anyone who is not you or valve/steam.
Please read the whole contract.
Other mmos have wiped. Aslong as they can find examples that wiped for currency exploits damaging the economy that is all they need for presidence.
Fair enough, you are correct in that regard. As long as the information is relayed through a hyperlink, Valve does not assume any responsibility for the information written there.
However the information on the store page for the Founder’s Pack DLC explicitly states that you will have one month head start. Not two weeks after a wipe, but a full month. This implies that you paid for the chance to progress a month before the game goes F2P, meaning you are entitled at least a month of persistent data before everyone else. Wiping a player’s progress diminishes their head start as they are starting fresh.
"This DLC will act as an access pass upon launch and will allow exclusive access to the Founder’s Server for 1 month to show appreciation to the players that wish to show us support from the very beginning. "
Says one month exclusive access it does not say consecutive. So if there was hypothetically a wipe we would have played around half the time before around half after, it still remains accurate.
Under the contents section it very clearly states that with the 1 month head start, you will be able to progress ahead of the rest with that time. It is fair to assume it will be consecutive as there is no reason to assume it won’t be.
Where does it say that, the only point i see head start is a sentence on the later you buy the less head start you have. But no where does it state your buying a head start it just says access.
Its annoying that they are so vague but its the same as IMC’s announcements and plans they give you next to nothing so its hard to hold them to anything.
This is the problem with this situation, the contract and promises are unclear and ambiguous at best, I find it rather annoying. These terms and conditions should be set in stone without being open to interpretation. People are picking apart different posts and citing old deleted posts try to make it seem like a wipe is possible… and I agree it IS possible, but not in this specific situation, it simply does not warrant it in my openion. I’m going to leave this post alone, we need to let it die.