Tree of Savior Forum

Team Dex Vs Team Str ( Trash talking, discussion, roasting each other, math magician war ) Aka Debate STR Vs DEX

Class and Rank Swordsman
#357

You’re still out-DPSed by a Full DEX, because he wouldn’t run from a boss like a Chicken.
Also:

"Oh, but they won’t Crit all the time!"
Yes, neither you’ll attack all the time, because you keep running from the boss like a little girl.

But let’s do a MEAN MATH here:
Assuming the third case, because you consider you Max Attack already with DOV, and assuming that the Crit Build will only Crit 50% of the time, WHICH IS NOT TRUE, as the number is much closer to 70~80%, we have this:

Full STR:
4000+7000= 11000

Full DEX, 50% Crit:
(2600+7000)x1.5= 14400
2600+7000= 9600
(14400+9600)x0.5= 12000

WOW, 12000!! YOU STILL GOT OUT-DPSED BY A DEX BUILD! WHO’LL CONSTANTLY HIT THE BOSS, WHILE YOU’LL HIT-AND-RUN!

You see, stop being a retard. STR scales badly late game and don’t provide Evasion.
But this is IMC’s fault for giving overpowered Base Damage to skills.
Your “Number 1” Ranking against Bosses can be explained due to your disturbing and muddling against other players in the fight, when you make the boss move and attack them, not because you’re strong.

Deal with it, you’re a high-lv noob, who doesn’t know better and keep sticking to the STR fallacy because while you’re leveling up in Crystal Mine you thought: “STR MAKES ME KILL THOSE CRYSTAL SPIDERS SO FAST! WOW! COOL! I’LL KEEP ADDING STR!”

PS: @haukinyau I don’t know if you’re serious or not, but I think CON will play a big part in future builds as well. This damage is simply getting way above something acceptable for current HPs.

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#358

Why people are soo salty about this…despite i kind of hate the attitude of akisera he has a point and that’s that doppel work better with str and swordsman in general move around that… now that mean that i should go full str always? nope and that heavily depends on your gear and attributes, for example i always prefer doppel with some dex (around 50) cause with max peta+monstrance end adding me extra 43 crit rate (yes… monstrance consider gear dex in the multiplication) and the rest str/con wich if i consider 3x7 crits gems and 2xsissel plus with chrono buff i could be around 42% of crit rate wich isn’t bad… now the problem that i see is that you guys think that high dex can sit in front of demon lords… i myself have tanked every one of the “big” four (mirthis, rexipher, hellga, sucky marnox) with a shitty 280 fencer1-rode2 (yeah my first 280 … and it sucks … but can hold aggro and live for it… someone posted a pic of a mirthis in wich i was the tank… and kind of trolled some spectators… like stomping mirthis in their faces) wich is a mix of str/con/dex(i’m a tank soo con over 120 for me is the bare minimum with that char) and while high dex archers/swordsman can evade some attacks from mirthis they can’t evade the deadly ones nor some annoying knockbacks (one of our fletchers almost die… well it did die if he didn’t have revive) and the think is that depends on your gear and in your build, for example a highlander-doppel will work best with str than dex cause the skills have very low dmg except vertical slash&new doppel c3 stuff but are mostly multi hit or double hit with a t0 modifier and despite new doppel c3 skills only 2 are heavy hitters but have high cd while the new zucken, redel are multi with a t0 modifier, still going high dex is very good if you have the patience and the silver for it with a doppel, saw a korean doppel c3 with high dex… but damn a red shining twin blade can do serius dmg with the trassendence system.

#360

well fencer are another kind of horse and they benefit more from dex than str in some cases (i prefer ending with 250-250 of each but that only happen in a 1:2 str:dex ratio), still as you said… maths don’t lie and dex will surpass str when you’re around 6k of p.attack or can spam that like dethrone of dragoon or the new fencer c3 skills, still i’m not in the dex or str wagon… cause people take dex for evasion and in late game that don’t work very well too (that’s why i’m saying is expensive) and you should aim for dex for the crit rate instead of evasion, for example archers can be over 1300 evasion but evasion is capped at an 80% chance, and Demon Lords with the new patch spam some serius attacks with high accuracy (for example mirthis thunders) and while dex helpful is not enough for face tanking, even with the lunge buff i still got hit pretty hard (infact stone skin and my C-block helped me much more than anything excep flannconade wich i find the best skill for tanking but with a great mana cost).

#361

ok thank you for the video it maybe short but still is a valid and a relevant battle between the builds for me, dps wise you lose at this point but ok lets include r8 stuffs and you might probably win in the future just “might” but still can’t say that since dopp c3 gives DoV 15 which is just a free 50% boost to you c2s who use DoV10 quite frequently and STR builds will gain another 10% str base str boost from that advancement that would help DoV scaling., but when it comes to survivability-wise hands down its all yours.

ok time to reroll a fencer, haha yes you read that right im rerolling a fencer not a doppel because with what i got from this thread a fencer would definitely fit what i got in mind to build lol i just hope i don’t get screwed repairing my rapier from time to time rofl.

#362

Team Full dex.

Cause damage in white color, regardless of the number, pisses me off. Yellow is a beautiful color for damage text XD

I build what i like. Fk me, right?

Ok, u guys can carry on with the debate…

#363

Just Sharing my opinion here :slight_smile:
and there is another thread here:


Summary:
Swordsman needs at least 3559 total attack before DEX investment will show improvement to dps (up to 40% crit rate only).
Swordsman needs at least 3990 total attack before further DEX investment will show more improvements.
A total attack of 4201 is required before a pure DEX build is beneficial.
A total attack of 4959 is required to make every DEX investment beneficial.
It is not until after 6390 total attack that pure DEX will become the highest dps.

Currently Swords “Pure DPS” is Doppel, Dragoon, Fencer
All of them will always need CON atleast 50-100 < its not counted, if you put the rest to 1 stat it will still considered as “Full something”

  • Fencer will be full dex I guess because you can have evasion + Block if you wear shield, its also make Fencer an optimal Tank, and after rank 8 Fencer gain more from dex (Crit damage from epee), and I believe some of their skill will have more than 6390 total attack per hit (bcz most are one hit big damage). so DEX - Fencer will become Highest DPS Fencer

  • Doppel on the other hand, Without Clicking STR, I cant see how he reach 6390 damage per hit, because all of their skill are low damage multi hit, I dont know about the future, but foor poor people who cant afford +99 Transcend 99x etc, STR doppel IS the best DPS doppel. Also there is a difference between Tank, DPS, and GlassCanon. Doppel will tank the worst of them all, because he must use 2H wepon, so he lost block even if you go Full DEX, you wont tank better than the other 2, but doesnt mean Doppel is a “Glass Canon”, because Glass Canon is a DPS that will die in 1 or 2 hit, And Im sure doppel wont because swordie has A LOT HP, so STR Doppel still perfectly fit the word “DPS”

  • Dragoon is the the “balance” because of Dethrone, Gaebulg, and Finestra(If you go Throu Hoplite 3)
    Dethore and gaebulg will easily hit more than 6390 Damage, by only counting this, DEX Dragoon is the best one
    But Dragoon also Has finestra, which make you can crit quite well even when you go full STR, and other Dragoon Skill is low damage multi hit that hardly reach 6390 Damage, So For Dragoon, it depends on your playstyle, and the class you took before
    Dragoon can also Tank as good as Fencer if you go full dex because you can use 1H spear + Shield
    (And because this is Tree of Spearman of course, Spearman always perfect lol)

But Here is what I believe for them all, For current level weapon with standard upgrade, Full STR who can Crit 40% will be better than Full DEX that can Crit 80%, So maximize your potential, Wether go DEX or STR both can be good depending your class + your weapon.

But Im not Really into Team 1STR 1DEX, spliting stat in this game is bad because you will lose more than you get, for example, VS monster who have High Crit Resist, Hybird Cant crit anyway, and deal less damage vs Full STR

P.S for all Crit DEX lover, Critical Chance and Evasion both caps near 80-85%, so, No, Never will be 100% Critical

#365

Wow thats good really, because Im also #teamDEX, but for Paladin, because I main Cleric lol
Have any pic or something to proof? ._.

#367

Trust me, I always will show my arrogant and spit on people like u =))

People who know me well will never know this side of me.

Spreading more Doppel require DEX evasion bullshit, goodjob.

#369

This formula is not right because One needs to account the multiplier of

  • Zwerchhau (100%)
  • Cleave (50%)
  • glassmole cards (70%)
  • skill attributes (100%)
    and alteration gauntlets into consideration

Assume one will want to outdps it, u need to have 24,000 phy attack skill in white dmg not 6500.

#370

But Im #TeamSTR for doppel dude, read my explanation, I dont know about high end weapon thou, and for doppel, because of DoV I thing the barrier for dex to reach STR level is also 100-150% more, 8K to 10K per hit

#371

Doing better than you, idiot.

#372

Yea, and he still dont provide any pics, or link about transcend system reach 7K weapon damage

#374

Dude, Pics or Link for 7K weapon please

#375

I am just giving out the correct formula as I have made all kinds of Doppel build from full DEX, 1:1 DEX STR, 1:2 DEX STR, 1:1 STR CON and etc since Ktos to #CBT 1 and #CBT 2, unlike some ppl who are damn sure DEX is the way to go.

Critical dmg is just x100%, works the same as skill attributes, example if u have skill attributes 100% and your base physical dmg is 2000, the final result of your crit dmg without crit attack is 6000 not 8000, because 2000 (base) + 2000 crit + 2000 skill attribute. Not 2000 multiply 2 into 4000 and multiply 2 into 8000 (this one is wrong).

And beyond that we can add other multipliers like Cleave, Zwerchhau and so on, tats why main physical attack is the basis, because all dmg will be base on main physical attack + skill dmg (we all know skill dmg will be flat).

#376

Doppel Skill dont ._,
Only Zwerchau

#377

*Critical Damage is +50%, yes its weaker than you think

#379

Ur spurting bullshits again, have u tried the skills or ur just listening to other ppl and thus u spread it urself?

Please, don’t say anything that is theory base until u proven other-wise like me, ur all talks so far and shows no evidence.

Fake multi-hits or not, to be able to identify we need to test it ourselves.

I have caught korean players spread wrong info like Cartar Stroke is FAKE multi-hit but it is actually true multi-hit

#381

I dont have to prove u wrong when u have no solid evidence =))
Its wrong to begin with, because ur an all talks that is theory base and listens to what others says before testing out urself.

#382

I will say ■■■■ to @akisera if he said that FENCER or INQUISITOR benefit more from STR, but DOPPEL DO GET BETTER From STR dude, do you even Read The link? or Read Doppel Skill Description? Doppel only got 1 SKill to benefit From DEX, the rest is STR

And you know what, Even Inquisitor Benefit more to DEX than Doppel

#384

He already made his char high DEX thats why he is so defending and trying to let ppl know DEX is good, but unfortunately is not.

Thats a sign of poor players spreading wrong information, I had enough of this kind of Swordsman players.