Tree of Savior Forum

A THEORETICAL STR vs DEX analysis for a level 280 character

General Discussion
#1

Update: This is now irrelevant. Please go here This will answer (almost) all of your questions about the STR vs DEX debate (pvp not included)

Click here if you want to see what I've written down before.

Hello. Firstly, this is going to be a lengthy post.

I am going to assume a few things before I get started.
-Monster defense is negligible and therefore will be set to 0.
-A level 280 character with 279 + 20 bonus stats.
-No gears will affect the 5 primary stats, and only the main weapon and gems will affect attack damage.
-The weapon will be endgame and the best weapon in the game, and the gem will be level 10.

To start off, I want to say that I used a level 280, C3 monk, C3 krivis for my calculations (because that’s what I will eventually become), and I will be using Double Punch at level 15.

There are a few things to note.
-I am using Lolopanther sword, and Illizia at max grind
-a green gem for the main weapon and sub weapon.
-a red gem for the gloves
-Krivis buffs
-Divine Stigma (+78 STR)
-Zalciai (+100 crit attack)

Crit Formula is (Crit rate - Crit Resist)*42/Level

In this case we are going to assume no crit resistance so it will be (Crit rate)*0.15

Now, a level 10 green gem gives +92 crit rate on main weapon and +120 crit rate on sub weapon, and a red gem gives +73 crit attack to gloves according to this website http://toswiki.treeofsaviorgame.com/item/gem

With this assumption,
-Main weapon green gem gives about 13.8% crit rate at level 280.
-Sub weapon green gem gives about 18% crit rate at level 280.
-Total is 31.8% crit rate.

I will also be using a level 10 red gem for Main weapon and sub weapon for >30% crit rate.

They give +58 max attack on main weapon, and +70 p.atk on sub weapon.

DMG formula <{[Skill Attack + Attack + [random(0% ~ 100%)*Magic Amp](100% + T0)]-{[(Defense - Defense Debuff)(100% + Level Penalty)] + Element Resist}}[100% + (50% if crit)] + crit attack + Element Attack + Enemy Specific DMG>(100% + T1)(100% + T2)(100% + T3)(100% + Enhance) + Bonus Dmg

However, most of that does not matter. All we need is
-(Skill attack + attack) * (100% + 50% if crit) + crit attack

Also, there is one important thing to note. The only ways to get over 100% crit rate is with a Priest’s buff Monstrance or by using multiple green gems on your weapons

Here is my theoretical calculation that I did. Click here!

Lolopanther Sword: 367 atk + 250 (198 crit atk)
Illizia: 662 atk + 175 (365 crit atk)

Divine Stigma: +78 str (also +78 crit atk)
Zalciai: +100 crit atk
S.Weap Green Gem: +120 crit rate, -40 max atk
M.Weap Green Gem: +93 crit rate, -55 crit atk
Gloves Red Gem: +73 crit attack

Double Punch: 663 attack

I used the red gems instead of green gems for the 10% and 20% crit rate calculations. Every other one uses green gems.

They all follow this format

ratio (stat points invested ratio) STR:DEX [crit rate]
(actual stat value)

Weapon name
critical hit| non-crit hit
Critical hit * crit rate %*100 | non-critical hit * (100 - crit rate %*100)
Average: [Critical hit * crit rate %*100 + non-critical hit * (100 - crit rate %*100)]/100

However, if you don’t want to read this mess go here -> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wpz3sXlvvtRpX-ZzIKwyZGxbCjCCNxb1DdxdAaEOtAw/edit#gid=0 and go to the second sheet. I would like to assume that I can leave this on free edit without anyone messing it up.

1:0 (299:0) STR:DEX [0% crit]
(actual stat value 625:3 STR:DEX) <-may vary with class

Lolopanther - 367 + 250 (c.atk 198)
4660|2391
0|239100
Average: 2391

Illizia - 662 + 175 (c.atk 365)
5157|2611
0|26110
Average: 2611

1:0 (299:0) STR:DEX [~13% crit]
(actual stat value 625:3 STR:DEX) <-may vary with class

Lolopanther - 367 + 250 (c.atk 198)
4518|2333
45180|209970
Average: 2551

Illizia - 662 + 175 (c.atk 365)
5015|2553
50155|229770
Average: 2799

1:0 (299:0) STR:DEX [~18% crit]
(actual stat value 625:3 STR:DEX) <-may vary with class

Lolopanther - 367 + 250 (c.atk 198)
4477|2321
88540|185680
Average: 2752

Illizia - 662 + 175 (c.atk 365)
4919|2541
99480|203280
Average: 3027

1:0 (299:0) STR:DEX [~31% crit]
(actual stat value 625:3 STR:DEX) <-may vary with class

Lolopanther - 367 + 250 (c.atk 198)
4353|2223
130605|155610
Average: 2862

Illizia - 662 + 175 (c.atk 365)
4850|2443
145515|171010
Average: 3165

6:1 (257:42) STR:DEX [~40% crit]
(actual stat value 534:54 STR:DEX) <-may vary with class

Lolopanther - 367 + 250 (c.atk 198)
4126|2132
165040|127920
Average: 2929

Illizia - 662 + 175 (c.atk 365)
4623|2352
184920|141120
Average: 3260

2.11:1 (203:96) STR:DEX [~50% crit]
(actual stat value 419:121 STR:DEX) <-may vary with class

Lolo
3838|2017
191925|100850 85850
Average: 2927

Illizia
4335|2237
216775|111850
Average: 3286

1:1 (150:149) STR:DEX [~60% crit]
(actual stat value 305:187 STR:DEX)

Lolo
3553|1903
213210|76120
Average: 2893

Illizia
4065|2133
243930|84920
Average: 3288

1:1.99 (100:199) STR:DEX [~70% crit]
(actual stat value 204:254 STR:DEX)

Lolo
3301|1802
231070|54060
Average: 2881

Illizia
3798|2022
265860|60660
Average: 3265

1:7.79 (34:265) STR:DEX [~83% crit (using 80%)]
(actual stat value 73:342 STR:DEX)

Lolo
2973|1671
237880|33420
Average: 2713

Illizia
3470|1891
277640|37820
Average: 3154

0:1 (0:299) STR:DEX [~90% crit]
(actual stat value 9:388 STR:DEX)

Lolo
2813|1607
253215|16070
Average: 2692

Illizia
3310|1827
297945|18270
Average: 3162

1:7.79 (34:265) STR:DEX [=100% crit w/ monstrance]
(actual stat value 73:342 STR:DEX)

Lolo
2973|1671
297330|0
Average: 2973

Illizia
3470|1891
34700|0
Average: 3470

As you can see with this THEORETICAL chart, 100% crit rate has the highest dps with 40% being the second highest

Again, 100% crit rate is only possible with Monstrace buff from Priest, or using multple green gems on the weapons

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wpz3sXlvvtRpX-ZzIKwyZGxbCjCCNxb1DdxdAaEOtAw/edit#gid=337006038 <- go here to see my data easier.

As for the question about defense. How much does it take off? Well not much.
~300 defense reduces the average by 300~450.
~200 defense reduces the average by 200~300.
~100 defense reduces the average by 100~150.
Monster defense affects higher critical rate average damage more than lower critical rate average damage.
i.e 300 monster defense, 0% crit rate = 2391 -> 2091 – only 300 damage reduced
300 monster defense, 50% crit rate = 2927 -> 2552 – 365 damage reduced
300 monster defense, 100% crit rate = 2973 -> 2523 – 450 damage reduction!
In the presence of High Monster defense ~40% crit rate would be better than 100%.

High Monster defense would mean that going 100% crit isn’t the highest damage anymore. It would be 40% crit rate that is the highest.

What about all the other damage enhancing things on the damage formula?
-They aren’t going to change the line graph at all. The most they will do is make all the average damage higher or lower at the same time

So, Ideally the best STR:DEX ratio is what will give you about 40% crit rate, and you get 31.8% of that from level 10 gems (assuming those are the actual gem values)

However, there are ways to reducing defense and getting rid of it entirely. Armor break debuff, Deprotect Zone, Monstrance, etc.

This isn’t limited to Monk; it works for every Physical based damage class. Sorry Magic classes, you can’t crit.

TL:DR Get 8.2% worth of crit rate from DEX with two green gems, OR use multiple level 10 green gems on your weapons, OR just get 40% worth of crit rate from DEX, the rest can go to STR. The ratio is about 6:1 STR:DEX with a level 10 green gem on both main and sub weapon.

Though if you disagree with me I would like to hear your reasons.

Any questions, please ask them.

5 Likes
This will answer (almost) all of your questions about the STR vs DEX debate (pvp not included)
#2

Math was already done:
-DEX is better for autoattacks,
-but when it comes to skills, STR wins.
-Also STR gives weight limit, which shouldn’t be considered for a damaging test ofcourse, but still.
-STR gives crit damage, so several classes that already have + to crits rate, pumping STR seems more logical.
-DEX gives evasion at lower levels, which is not that important at higher levels, unless you are full dex.

1 Like
#3

Lol i skip the whole thing and just read ur reply… u blakinola?

1 Like
#4

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

3 Likes
#5

u need 300-350 crit rate. if u have bonus dex (monstrance) or subweapons u need less base dex (around 150 at lvl 280) but if u play like a 2h sword u will need around 180-190 base dex at 280

#6

Man you’ve messed it up completely. STR is better for autoattacks and DEX is better for skills (especially with high base damage ones).

#7

Its better to use lvl 7 (11.5 mil silver) or lvl 8 (54.7 mil silver) gems in calculations. Lvl10 gems is a dream (486 millions of silver each).

#8

In most cases for classes that can’t do much damage from skills(like squire) it is better to take con/dex or high dex for him.
I really don’t understand why people give theese suggestions, if u r correct.
And if you are considering early game, then pumping STR is better than DEX.

#9

Technically its not that. E.g. if monster have 100500 DEF, you’ll get 0 damage on your regular shots, but X damage on your crits (where X = your critical attack value). At least in theory :slight_smile:

#10

How did you calculate the costs for a gem?

#11

(EXP_NEEDED / 100) * 5000

Where 5000 is a Talt price :slight_smile: Ofc it is almost lowest possible price, in reality you’ll spend more because you can’t buy that much Talt on 5000 (or regular mats on 250).

#12

Ah ok.
Never bothered with putting my talts elsewhere than in the guild.

Thought for a moment there’s a place where you can buy that stuff "Level 1(level x) gem abrasive.

#13

Can’t say about Squire, overall its a support class and viable build for it could be full CON (you don’t need STR or DEX to tank monsters).

For QS Archers (almost pure auto-attackers) there is a huge topic on forum where all the math done and best ratio is 1.5:1 or 2:1 for STR:DEX. It depends on what gems you can get and so on.

For skills-based classes it is better to go higher DEX, because you profit much more from higher crit chance. You don’t need to boost base damage with STR because it is already really high.

But for DoT based classes (like Wugushi) you wanna full STR, because DoT’s can’t crit.

#14

As a tank, i have a pleasure for goin con:dex 1:1 build.
~ 40%+ evade chance for physical attacks in mid game. I heard evasion will fall off later on.

People don’t like squires as a tank, since they should be in towns :
It’s hard to grind with full CON Squire, just imagine it.

Archers has Kneeling Shot (ATK(base dmg+weapon dmg+STR)+n+DEX). In this case DEX is surely good to level, since DEX gives you also damage.
Some skills can crit, archers has theese.

In most cases people focus on most damaging skills, which works better from STR and… can’t crit, i guess.

#15

All physical damage skills can critical.
The value of a single point of dex at level 280 is 0.15*(0.5*base damage+crit attack). Skills, with a higher value of base damage, lend themselves to dex.

Str however, is worth 2.5crit chance+1(1-crit chance), and doesn’t scale with skill damage at all, only caring about the sheer number of hits dealt.

#16

@ravenk36
Dex is not better for auto attacks

I used Lolopanther sword, Swordsman lvl 280, rank 7

Auto attacks, STR VS DEX - no defense

STR:DEX | Crit rate | damage | crit hit || average
299:0 | 0% | 1841.9 | 0 || 1841.9
249:50 | 10% | 1683.6 | 3225 || 1837.7
195:104 | 20% | 1514.4 | 2856 || 1782.7
143:156 | 30% | 1351.5 | 2500 || 1696.1
93:206 | 40% | 1201.5 | 2175 || 1590.9
43:256 | 50% | 1051.5 | 1850 || 1450.7
0:299 | 60% | 925.94 | 1579 || 1317.7

Auto attacks, STR VS DEX - 200 defense

STR:DEX | Crit rate | damage | crit hit || average
299:0 | 0% | 1641.9 | 0 || 1641.9
249:50 | 10% | 1283.6 | 2925 || 1447.7
195:104 | 20% | 1314.4 | 2556 || 1562.4
143:156 | 30% | 1151.5 | 2200 || 1466.1
93:206 | 40% | 1001.5 | 1875 || 1350.9
43:256 | 50% | 851.5 | 1550 || 1200.7
0:299 | 60% | 725.94 | 1379 || 1117.7

Skills benefits from Str more that is correct, but everything benefits from STR more than DEX

Weight limit and evasion doesn’t matter for dps. Irrelevant.
Crit Damage is useless without crit, and even then you still need to balance STR and DEX for it to be useful.

Kneeling shot will benefit from STR more than DEX even if DEX is in the formula because you’ll be double dipping in STR

@watdaheck1
No, I’m not blakinola. Who is that?

@balintszabo111 @Beresta
The auto attacks I did earlier on this post is without level 10 gems or any gems for that matter, and the result is that STR is better than DEX. There is only one exception to this and that is if you have unbelievably high burst damage skills, but most of those belong to Wizards and magic can’t crit.

@Beresta
You will never see a monster with that much defense. High defense in this game is about 400~500. But, yes, in that case, having crit atk would be better since it’s essentially bonus damage

Full CON will always be worse than a mix of STR:CON. You need damage to get anywhere in the first place.

Skills benefit more from STR, even skills that have bonus crit rate will do more with higher STR.

@Lenny
You need
-66 dex for 10%
-134 dex for 20%
-200 dex for 30%
-267 dex for 40%
-333 dex for 50%
-392 dex for 58.8%

Of course this is not factoring in monster crit reist, so it will be more.
You can only get ~60% dex with stats alone.

@Rooke
I didn’t.

@dmhamilt
Indeed.

Here, I made a damage calculator https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GZQxOmsBpQchCPpJIB9YYppIA8dqeG7RDO66rkI0YVw/edit

It’s about 97% accurate. Damage will be off by about >1%

Also, This is only in theory as well as only really pertaining to absolute endgame. Things are going to be different for leveling; that is a given.

#17

Preformatted text yo.
Auto attacks, STR VS DEX - no defense

STR:DEX | Crit rate | damage | crit hit || average
299:0   |  0%       | 1841.9 | 0        || 1841.9
249:50  | 10%       | 1683.6 | 3225     || 1837.7
195:104 | 20%       | 1514.4 | 2856     || 1782.7
143:156 | 30%       | 1351.5 | 2500     || 1696.1
93:206  | 40%       | 1201.5 | 2175     || 1590.9
43:256  | 50%       | 1051.5 | 1850     || 1450.7 
0:299   | 60%       | 925.94 | 1579     || 1317.7

Auto attacks, STR VS DEX - 200 defense

STR:DEX | Crit rate | damage | crit hit || average
299:0   |  0%       | 1641.9 | 0        || 1641.9
249:50  | 10%       | 1483.6 | 2925     || 1627.9
195:104 | 20%       | 1314.4 | 2556     || 1562.4
143:156 | 30%       | 1151.5 | 2200     || 1466.1 
93:206  | 40%       | 1001.5 | 1875     || 1350.9 
43:256  | 50%       | 851.5  | 1550     || 1200.7  
0:299   | 60%       | 725.94 | 1379     || 1117.7

and for reference on big skills and str/dex:
Gae Bulg 5 (3812 skill damage), STR VS DEX - 200 defense

STR:DEX | Crit rate | Damage | Crit hit || Average
299:0   |  0.96%    | 5453   | 8988     || 5487
249:50  | 10.01%    | 5295   | 8643     || 5630
195:104 | 20.14%    | 5126   | 8274     || 5760
143:156 | 30.05%    | 4963   | 7918     || 5851
93:206  | 40.05%    | 4813   | 7593     || 5926
43:256  | 50.05%    | 4663   | 7268     || 5967 
0:299   | 58.80%    | 4537   | 6997     || 5984

Also, I think you might have messed up how stats from gear is added on your sheet. Adding 50 str from gear is giving 100 physical attack and crit damage.

#18

thank you formatting that. Yes I realized late that really high modifiers benefit more from crit.

I dont see the error you are saying. Gear stat is working correctly for me.

i updated it a bit, but it didn’t affect the formula for gear stats

#19

dude u need 150 dex if u have a sub weapon / dex buffs or 180-190 dex if u dont. sissel bracelet and green gems will give u 300+ dex

and archers need less cus they have class bonus

with monster resist u can get around 30% this way. but u need high level gear and stuf…

#20

You do realize that getting DEX is completely irrelevant if you have three level 10 green gems on your main/sub weapons right?

Heck you can even use four level 6 green gems on your weapons and you’ll never have to worry about getting DEX unless you want evasion and accuracy which both doesn’t matter.

subweapons
Lolopanther dagger = 49 crit rate
The pistol and cannon with crit rate you won’t be using at endgame.
Shields don’t have crit rate

They barely/don’t even give crit rate. What are you even talking about?

The only buffs that I can find that gives crit rate is Monstrance from Priest and Finestra from Hoplite

Monstrance gives DEX*1.3+10 to your DEX aka only an extra 55 DEX or 55 crit rate at your 150 DEX

Finestra gives 150 crit rate at max level.

That isn’t even counting all the crit rate and DEX you MIGHT get from your gear, so you actually DON’T need 150+ DEX. You don’t even need DEX at all because all the crit rate you need will come from your gear.

Also, you only NEED 267 crit rate for 40%.

267 crit rate for 40% NOT +300

I mean sure, monsters will have crit resist, but it’s not going to matter.

Lolopanther leather set gives +71 crit rate
Lolopanther necklace gives +20 crit rate
two sissel bracelets gives +74 crit rate\

this makes a total of 165 crit rate already

adding ONE level 7 green gem on both main and sub weapon gives you +101 crit rate

Together that is 266 crit rate. You only need 267 crit rate.

Still this isn’t including the crit rate gained from buffs, the actual weapon stats, hat stats, and other green gems you can put on your main/sub weapon.

And if you can get your hands on level 10 gems, that’s +93 crit rate main, and +120 crit rate sub. Even less of a reason to get DEX.

Q. But monster crit resist!!
A. 266 crit rate is like the minimun you’ll have with the proper gear, you’ll be well over 40% crit rate with a fully complete endgame gear

Q. Wait a minute why do you keep talking about stuff at level 280 and hard to get stuff?
A. That’s the whole point of this thread.

Q. But Archers need less crit rate.
A. Obviously, that just means they can get more dmg

Q. What about the big bursty skills that benefit from higher crit rate?
A. You will already have atleast 40% crit rate with the bare minimum endgame gear. I’m not saying that you won’t have more when you max out your gear.

TL:DR As I said like three times now, statting DEX is not important FOR ENDGAME. Leveling is a different story. Super bursty skills want more crit rate yes. but you’ll have atleast 50~60% crit rate with a proper gear setup anyways.