Now I understand why jack hates shieldmen good thing jack is jack 
He must have only experienced simple games where you only have one job to do. He gets confused with versatility. I hope someday he can digest that idea.
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Is this your first time playing MMOs (or any video games)?
HP is not the defining factor of whether a class is meant to tank or not. I will point you back to an MMO called Ragnarok Online, which is likely one of the inspiration of this game. OR more recently, look at Final Fantasy XIV and look at all of the variations of the so-called âtankâ classes most if not all games that feature a swordsman archetype include variance for DPSâŚ
This game is actually guilty of not staying true to its own concept of variety, where it seems as though you are not needed or at all wanted if you donât take the one class for the one one skill that everyone else seems to only care about. The developers promised that you could make whatever you wanted and it would be viable, except that does not seem to be the case judging from what everything in this thread.
This is all coming from the guy that almost religiously plays a swordsman job tree on his first playthrough of any game.
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Did they ever promise that? Iâm curious, tbh. Because viability is more in the eyes of the community above all else, so that doesnât sit right if they try to make everything have equal viability from the standpoint of a dev.
That said, it wouldnât hurt to give Swordsmen more utility along with their DPS. Right now I feel because all of our damage lack oomf, that having utility will set us different from the Wizards and such. Highlander has some of the right approach to a utilitarized DPS character, and Corsair has pretty decent party support.
Let me put it in terms that follow your logic.
From what I can assess of this topic (I canât give me own opinion on this since I havenât moved that far ahead), once you hit the 200+ level mark, if you do not have the one class for the one skill that the rest of the party cares about, youâre are useless to them and therefore not worth keeping in the party. That alone tells you that this game has a very broken game design element with regard to one class archetype.
And yes, they did say that you could play any class in any combination of advancements without it being a hindrance to your experience. I have trouble finding the dev blogs where this was made mention of, but I am certain they said that much was possible, and right now, the opposite of what they said is the case (âcanât lure? youâre uselessâ).
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The world isnât as black and white as you pretend it to be, not to mention as deluded.
Becoming a professional in law is more and more becoming a âburgers and friesâ type of job because the sheer amount of people that are graduating as lawyers and from similar law degrees. The same is happening to engineers. This day an age a truck driver and a fisherman job can earn you significantly more than the civil engineering job or the fickle law profession because it has become a race to the bottom⌠so your analogy doesnât work.
If one skill is the only thing that is needed of an entire class in this game, then the problem is with the gameâs design and not its players.
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Whatâs the point of have 80 classes, if not the viability?
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Thatâs a community-driven thing though. âIf youâre not a Peltasta then gtfoâ is more or less the community because nobody else has an CC mechanic that actually spans beyond the screens and can quite honestly spam it.
What the issue is the Swordsmen who want to become the glassy close ranged DPSers canât even hold a candle to the ranged and magic DPSers at all, despite being in more danger than them indefinitely. The ones that donât want to be a bruiser or a tank want to deal pure damage, but because of the community, how Pelt 1 is designed, and how generally the other classes preformed; theyâre shoehorned into the role of being at least a bruiser. Also huh, Mustâve missed that post in the dev blog.
Iâm not sure. When you get to that level of massiveness, you need entire teams to even document. Like, look at League and itâs constant influx of Champions versus ones that donât even see the light of day in trade of the ones that are played simply becomes overtuned.
Honestly I donât expect every class to be viable. Because viability is quite dependent on what the game wants from itâs players; In our case Saalus runs and Earth Tower being the current meta shaper. It just depends on what happens when new content comes out presuably with Rank 8.
You pretty much only need a decent healer for saalus, if the party knows what they are doing. Such as:
1)Bring first boss to statue, kill it there while AoE the waves at the same time.
2)Kill teleporters
3)One person can kite the turtle away from group, just within its reset aggro range.
4)Know what AoEs to avoid eating
Itâs pretty easy.
Most of what you said is a fault of game design through a lack of foresight.
The âmetaâ is itself shaped by how the developers go about making the game. If their purpose was to make swordsmen essentially an afterthought at the endgame because the only useful skill they got is a skill that is locked to one class that is built around a concept completely different from the other class builds (tank vs DPS), then they fooled me with their ability to balance the game.
If much of the content can be rolled with just the archer and the mages, then also map and mob design is also at fault. Whatever happened to mobs to the idea that mobs could be resistant/immune to magic or even physical/ranged attacks? I donât want to assume that this kind of game play is not found in the game, but judging by the impression given on this thread, it seems that AI, level and mob design in general are quite lacking. Hopefully thatâs not the case and it just happens that some of the more popular maps are the ones that benefit the ranged/magic class over melee.
That said, much this stuff could have been solved by actually creating a DPS table with the ideal average and setting all the classes and their job/ranks relative to the DPS bar (these classes have higher DPS than the rest, these others have lower DPS and then these belong in the average). Right now it just doesnât help the swordsman jobs.
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Community is only partly at fault. Trust me, Iâve gotten into many party in Evac as a DPS swordman.
The problem is that DPS swordman cannot do much at current high level content. Mobs screw you up by knock/flinch, sleep/freeze, or ridiculous physical/pinpoint magical damage.
DPS swordman cannot avoid those, while ranged DPS can, because by nature of a party, there will always be someone who shield for the ranged DPS, but not melee.
And frankly, if you ask me, I wouldnât even take myself into the party if I have choices, since anyone can fill the spot better.
I honestly just wanted to iterate that it isnât entirely the devs doing, even though they pretty much laid the foundations that led to this. Part of the blame does extend to the community, but it is pretty much as you said: A lack of foresight. Thereâs a bunch of variables to consider when it comes to how a Swordie does DPS aside itâs numbers: Because if they donât get a chance to actually deal it, whatâs the point?
The amount of CC in this game that can choke a melee is actually pretty damn ridiculous, meanwhile Magic types have the upper hand indefinitely. Yeah sure, Magic canât crit but it never misses, coupled with the fact that there are very few ways to actually mitigate magic aside from a few outlier spells (Resist Elements, Counterspell, etc) and that most magic spells donât even say how many times they could hit an enemy, theyâll straight just out DPS most due to their nature.
There needs to be some magic-unfriendly endgame content or rather some mechanic thatâd slow them down considerably to alleviate the meta of Wizards. Despite the fact that Pelts are really only seen as meat tanks, thereâs simply nothing really favoring them aside looking cool.
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I want to believe that right now, in the IMC workshop, they are calculating and measuring every skill from swordie tree (after realizing their mistakes), proceeding to tune up fairly the cooldowns, base damages and scallings of barbarian, doppel, hoplite, fencer, dragoon, highlander and etc (just like they already done with cataphract); but since it takes a lot of time, they just throwed a 1,3* P.A STR multiplier cookie buff for the koreans to calm down the fallen swordie population.
But i fear that they are doing something more âimportantâ and this will take months (or years) to happen, not to mention how much it will take to get here. Anyway, sooner or later they will need to trully fix it.
âIMC, are you looking at this?â
Answer: No
They donât care about us.
some wiz and cleric builds can tank better while doing more DPS (from distance)
2-5 sword skills = 1 ranged dps skill in dmg
while we try to use one skill w/o getting knockdown or being raped, a ranged dps already used 3-5 skills
Pros and cons of being a sword:
PROs:
- Sprint
CONs:
-
Canât tank well
-
Melee
-
Out damaged by support classes
-
Enjoy leveling alone if you donât have peltasta
-
Too late for re-roll, you already lost 100hours of your life
Sure, i didnât read everything. But isnât there an attribute that gives u every upgrade + 50% aggro?
Iâm lvl 138 swordibarbariancorsair* and as iâm goin dps build, i didnât skilled it yetâŚcan anyone give me a feedback to this attribute, please? is it useless?
And yea guys. Iâm not lvl 200+ yet. But i notice hardly that iâm not doing much dmg. I need a full combo of 4 skills x 2 charges to get a normal mob down. wtf?