Tree of Savior Forum

[Suggestion] Token price reduction compensation

General Discussion
#100

Loonie’s method is obviously the fairest but it’s impossible due to the fact IMC probably doesn’t have precise logs of TP items sales (as @nizidr stated before).

I would be upset too, but if you did that for a token you don’t even want that’s a clear example of you trying to abuse the system to earn TP through silver.

This should be a compensation for token TP price changes, not a TP giveaway parade.

Furthermore, if IMC gives tons of TPs to everyone they will be losing out money on the future because people will have less need to buy TP packs for real cash.

#102

You may think that then the supply was halved for that time then, but did you think that the supply of Token was really that high naturally? Right before F2P with the 50% founder pack, the cheapest one included 380TP and a 30 day Token. The bots most likely purchased Tokens to cut their losses by selling them on the market. This also creates the illusion that TP to silver is cheap and RMT becomes over valued.

Refunding original spenders as close as possible is the best solution no matter what. In the end you’re only giving more value for their real money spent, which is the whole point of reducing the TP value of Tokens.

#103

snipping my post bc my opinion on this is actually not worth the effort.

1 Like
#104

I think that the exploiters where banned and their unsold tp/token was gone with them.
However The already sold tokens where not deleted as they can’t punish player who bought their token in a fair way

buyer -> fair;
seller -> unfair;
can’t punish buyer for seller actions.

there was an announcement somewhere, sorry for not linking as I don’t know exactly where it is.

edit:

I agree with this, the problem is changing their mind after the announcement.

I’ll see if I can find it.

@yeule Please let your post there it is worth.

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#105

I saw a TOS reddit that the exploit was a hoax, and the prove they provided was only client side. Meaning you see the Tokens but they don’t actually exist server side and it’s just junk.

#106

Here got it for you @yeule


I liked your post, not worth the effort is deleting it after the time you spent to write.

1 Like
#107

Yes it is. I just gave you an example for myself: Never spent a single TP and still earning extra 396 TP points. How’s that not generating new TP for me?

And yes, it is generating new TP even on the global view of population. There were tons of tokens being generated through DLC exploits (so tokens adquired for free) that will now be converted into more TP.

If this compensation is given out, IMC will witness a sudden drop of sales of all DLC packs. People will have extra TP to use and the necessity to buy more packs will cease to exist.

How’s that not unfair to you? A selected few rich people getting way richer and the poorer staying as they are:

F2P players who bought token through silver in game and used their token won’t get any compensation because they don’t have token in their pocket anymore (so they aren’t getting anything).

You’re just thinking of your own situation alone, but forgetting to see the whole scenario.

#109

You’re right, they are. I must’ve skipped that part when reading the announcement.

But still, it doesn’t invalidate the other arguments I’ve stated.

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#111

just a whim but, won’t it be a lot ezier if they just check those who have “TRADABLE” tokens and compensate them?
screw the tokens currently being in used.

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#112

I only see that some people just win the bet and some lose

Happen all the time in stock market

Suck i know but that how things are

2 Likes
#113

380 TP and a token, at a 198 TP token price, can give you 2 tokens at most, even considering the 5 free TP you can stack upon. (the pack one and an additional one, as you would have 187 TP left after getting one, that can get to 192 with the free ones - still not enough for another token).
With a 99 TP cost per token, instead, they would have got either 4 tokens (1+3 from TP) or 5 if they used their free TP wisely (94 TP cost per each one,and you end up with 4 spare TP left).
You’re right, my calculations were wrong - compared to a 99 TP cost, the supply was even more than halved. Tokens’ cost would have been even lower. Oh well, can’t do much about it.

Either way, no, refunding original spenders makes no sense. They got silvers from those tokens, and that silver value depended on tokens having a 198 TP cost, as that was what determined the supply of tokens. With a 99 TP cost, and a supply that would have been more than doubled, they wouldn’t have got those amounts of silvers to begin with. You’re saying that they should get the silver value of 198 TP and a 99 TP in addition to that, while the ones that bought them end up having paid a silver value of 198 TP for something that costs 99 TP. Obviously, that makes no sense.
What will happen instead is that people who sold tokens and got their 198 TP value in silvers for each of them will see no change, and whoever bought those tokens for the silver equivalent of 198 TP and now have an item valued 99 TP get compensated for the missing 99 TP. As logic would dictate.

3 Likes
#114

This everything and because you sold token that she bought gained silver and still or to gain more tp? Want more nothing not doesn’t type a personage upado until the 280?

#115

You’re basically just stating what OP is implying.

The only “tradeable” tokens are ones directly bought from the TP shop.

1 Like
#116

Your first paragraph as a reply to mine would imply that you actually wanted bots to flood the market with even more Tokens, thus decreasing the TP to silver value and promoting buying silver from RMT?

You’re assuming the Token to silver value will drop and it will screw over the Token buyers. That will also mean that 99 TP is worth even less silver. So original Token buyers would get even less valued TP. Also how is refunding paying customers half of what they paid for because the item is now worth half making no sense to you? Ever heard of Best Price Guarantee policy that almost every retail store in North America has?

I highly doubt even with 99TP Tokens they will ever be as low as the week before F2P. If Token values drop because there’s suddenly a huge supply I will quit the game. Because that would mean bots that has been live for a month did not get banned yet.

I would even prefer no refunds over their current decision. The bots and RMT are so obviously influencing the game. Did you see what happened to Arde Daggers after they announce temporarily closing the game to new players? Bots bought them all.

#117

Im one of those who have a lot of tokens stored thanks to all ppl selling em on the market. Now… I don’t think that giving 99 TP or something to each token that every player has atm is the right thing to do cause damn… It does not make sense at all.

Ofc I would be happy to see all that TP from my tokens but Jesus… Makes no sense giving real money to someone who just brought those tokens with silver and have not spent a single coin IRL. Still, thats IMC’s decision so i’m not going to press any further. Just hope they kinda take some time to look at this more carefully.

Just to make things clear… I got tons of tokens saved and I still don’t think that giving TPs for players like me is right.(Though ofc i got the DLCs as well)

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#118

Do you seriously think IMC will change their minds?

Why are they still allowing tokens to be sell in the market? It’s getting harder for them now to track the people who bought tokens with money

#119

Whats the point in bots buy a token to get another one? It’s a pure time waste for them because they will get an untradable token with 0 profit assuming they will sell another token cause of 99 tp compensation.

About Arder dagger, bot actually buy them for self use and the majority are real players gambling in the market.

#120

Nah, i was merely stating how your calculations and logic were completely off the point. And there is no need to involve bots, the market would have been flooded by the players themselves. You can’t take the whole cost change out of context. If tokens always costed 99 TP, their silver cost would have been different as well.
Saying that they should refund “paying customers half of what they paid for because the item is now worth half” makes indeed no sense, if they sold those tokens. They got silvers by selling them, at a price that depended on them costing 198 TP. I’ve already explained above how much more tokens there could have been in the market with a 99 TP price, even considering only the 380 TP pack. It only makes sense that the silver prices of the tokens would end up being lower - the law of demand and offer is one of the basics of economics, after all.
The ones that should get refunded are the end users of those tokens, be it the ones that used their own TP or the ones that used silvers to buy them from market, as those are the ones that they paid in full and got an item that’s worth half. Whereas the ones that sold them paid their full TP price, but also got an equivalent “full” silver price, thus they didn’t lose anything from the change. Also, if they did so, they would also end up giving free TP to the bots (oh, i guess this is where i should say that you wanting for the original buyers to get compensated implies that you wanted bots to get even more TP to flood the market with even more Tokens, thus decreasing the TP to silver value and promoting buying silver from RMT)

And tokens will have their price lowered anyway, even if we weren’t considering the compensations. Tokens prices are getting cut in half, and it is only logical that it will have an impact on the market in the form of an higher supply, and thus lesser prices, as the demand has no reason to increase at a ratio that would offset the token cost change.

#121

Simply math for simply minds indeed. It’s incorrect.
As I posted in another thread:

They bought tokens at the minimum cap, any time, all time. They wouldnt have been able to buy them any lower, so they wouldnt lose anything at all.

Anyone with a few millions could of bought 10-20 tokens with that. And earned themselves 1k-2k TP in the process. On all servers.

That’s why the current form of compensation is down right stupid. It makes no sense to compensate like this.
The only ones gaining from this, are the ones that didnt spend TP, but spend silver.

#122

I completely agree with those points.

Also a really simple example for the retards that cant understand why this isnt fair for the people who actually spent money on it.

Situation A:

If you go to a store and you purchase a T-Shirt for $10, after a few days you regret about the color or whatever and you sell it to someone else for $5.
Then the store realized that the price was wrong and its going to compensate everyone who purchased it. The original owner goes with the receipt to claim his $5 back, no harm done, the store protected their original customer.

Situation B:

If you go to a store and you purchase a T-Shirt for $10, after a few days you regret about the color or whatever and you sell it to someone else for $5.
Then the store realized that the price was wrong and its going to compensate everyone who bring the T-Shirt. The original owner gets f*cked, and the person who purchased it, pretty much gets a free T-Shirt.

IRL There is no situation B, if you think thats the way to go, thats not how life works, its just retarded.

Any normal company would protect the people who actually spend money on their stuff. And for the “P2W” haters or similar, please accept the fact that without the money from people who actually spend money on this game, no one would be able to play this game. Do you really think that with your $10 from founders they are going to keep alive the servers? or is it with the $150+ from the REAL founders?

As a solution, IMC should extend the token time or simply just dont compensate anyone.

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