Tree of Savior Forum

Schwarzer Reiter vs Rank 7 classes

Class and Rank Archer
#14

Honestly the actual question here isn’t performance based at all. The REAL question about if SR is comparable to the other rank 7 classes is Party viability.

How often does a SR get parties in comparison to more AOE focused builds for storage//almeth grinds//Earth tower??

Looking at damage comparisons or Equipment means *** if you dont get grind parties or party invites to dungeons late game. From all the “experts” this game REQUIRES party setups late on towords 280 and with the fact that most times archers are the last thing on peoples lists (The ACTUAL problem with archer class, Priority order is Taunt (swordy) Heal (cleric) DPS(Anymage class//Linker) another mage class (Chrono, linker, Cryo3) and then maybe an archer and that’s only for the exp bonus.) The only thing archers do is deal damage in parties, and when mages do it better and we have no utility I really feel like im wasting my time leveling a SR when I know im not going to get any parties, because I don’t have a “cool” build with falconer and cannon//musket. Or wagu or whatever. Especially when all a musketeer or a cannoneer has to do is point and shoot. SR has to have multiple things to setup to deal effective damage at any given point (Walls, VARIOUS mechanic tricks and CD management.) And most mobs die before you can really get halfway through retreat shot.

Im still making my SR and I love the playstyle so far. But this is my question and opinion if anyone would like to shed light on it.

2 Likes
#15

You can still do a lot of damage by doing auto-attack and retreat shot at the same time to slow your movement speed. i’ve never had a problem finding party for grind, maybe a bit harder compared to other class like pelt,healer, and chronomancer sometime(it’s actually all archer problem), but no one ever kicked me for being sr c2 when the party said “archer”.

I think that sr c2 still do a better amount of damage compared to cannoneer and musketeer when grinding(im a1=>r3=>rog1=>sr2). RS cooldown wont really be a problem when grinding with party because even if you didn’t kill the mobs with first rs, your party will kill it for you. I’m not really sure, but in term of aoe damage for grind party i think that sr outdps mage class too with rs and wall(especially with linker and chronomancer).

1 Like
#16

I appreciate that thanks. Im just tired of everything being a numbers check, when the real issue is getting parties to level up.

On a side note how do you like rogue with retreat shot? How consistant is it to hit from behind?

#17

SR skill is very hard to hit from behind, but i still can do it for a short time if my party is tanking the mobs because the mobs usually switched agro to me after a few shot from rs.

#18

To be honest that dmg you are doing is comparative to running shot + kneeling.

the whole benefit everyone forgets about musk is taking 1 c in Falcon for circling. That makes us have crazy AOE support for the entier party and ourselves.
Unlike SR which to me seem to be a “selfish” class in terms as it doesn’t bring support to the party in a whole but rather only for itself. Falcon circling can turn mages into literal death.

What I’m saying is don’t just judge the r7 classes by only r7 judge it by the entier class makeup.

1 Like
#19

You’re right the comparison should be done with the build as a whole. But I’m going to stop you right there if you’re going with kneeling shot + running shot cancel being comparable to retreat shot + running shot.

Without even pulling out the numbers and just looking at the skills.
Wall Running Shot does 1.78 attacks per second and that’s with the horrible lag in game atm. Base retreat shot with no movement speed does 3 attacks per second for 10s.

Running Shot + Lv5 Kneeling Shot cancel does 2.27 attacks per second according to Animation Canceling in ToS

So to make it relevant we’re only going to count the 10s of retreat shot’s uptime because of your statement

Running + Retreat
1.78 att/s x 10s + 3 att/s x 10s
You’d get 17.8 attacks from running and 30 attacks from retreat shot

Lv5 Kneeling + Running
2.27 att/s x 10s
You’d get 22.7 attacks

You’re going to compare 5 more attacks from running to a full 30 hits from retreat shot.

#20

You speak of the number of attacks yes but you need to also factor in the dmg as well. Running shot at lv 7 as every QS has a GC at least for example is 320% bonus dmg. Throw in a DGC for even more dmg. Depending on how someone builds you can be looking at 10k autos.[ Mind you Lunar was state how he was getting 30k hits from retreat on rexi last night ] Factoring Running and kneeling the dmg can be higher than just running about.

I should also mention I am more of a dex build so aginst most bosses I’m running cafrisun gear as well. Chuck in the dmg from sanctum, blessing, fire enchant, and my own mana that all adds up as well.

I guess I look at it not based on the dmg per hit but the fact of the constant assault of hits the dmg can add up to be equivalent or equal to retreat based on the

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0ihHcO_g4g [ lv 130 i know bad comparison but this is what people use to show builds for some weird reason. ]

Mabey I am just partial to my own build because I have been able to out cube stacked dps with sub optimal gear. I just feel like overal all musk / falc combo can bring just as much single target dps and support to a team compared to an SR 2 . Throw in the fact of chrono and that is even more falcon up time. If you equate all the extra aoe dmg to the falcon that brings a lot more aoe dps then a SR could as it affects the entire party instead of just one persons numbers.

#21

How does Hunter C1 affect SR? Thought of it since there’s a companion theme and, hey, why not put it to use?

#22

you can’t use any hunter skill while mounted

1 Like
#23

Aw, that sucks :frowning:
Maybe Rogue, then…just not seeing the need for A2 right now.

#24

I cant decide between archer 2 and Rogue for my C5, both seem to be useless late game barring Sneak hit on world bosses//Party play on bosses for single target.

Also like…unless I haven’t read it somewhere the whole “SR only good with a wall” thing, Cant you just stagger Pavaise with quarrel shooter and just run into that?? Seems worth it to dismount to create a wall to use the only skill that you took the class for. I mean people are dismounting for cannon shot why not for pavaise if you don’t have walls around? Havnt seen too many people post that.

#25

Because you can use running shot to shoot mobs while retreat shot is active, so you autoattack and retreat shot attack. Among other things.

#26

What’s the current meta build for SR2 and Earth Tower?

Is it Archer2 Ranger1 Wugu2 Schwarz2?

Or Archer3 Wugu2 Schwarz2?

#27

I don’t think you want that. You want basic (slow) move speed while using [retreat shot] so you don’t outrun your targets.

#28

Ktos meta build isnt as it is here in itos so you would have to make adjustments

#29

Obviously that’s why I replaced the two extra ranks of Ranger for Wugu2.

#30

@Punkd

Any SR users to confirm this one? How long is the implementation in iTOS?

[Schwarzer Reiter]
- Retreat Shot: Using basic attacks during Retreat Shot will now properly end the skill & further attacks become basic attacks again. ( TN: You can no longer use both at the same time. )

I have been planning also to create A2>QS3>SR2 but this happened. whew!

Reddit Topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/treeofsavior/comments/4l3lxj/ktos_updated/
Source: http://tos.nexon.com/community/tosnotice/view.aspx?n4ArticleSN=363
Translation: http://pastebin.com/N6WPwFYt

Auto Attack (A2/QS3/x/x) Guide
iDreamy's Guide to Scout C3
#31

Yeah there’s a video showing auto’s canceling retreat shot which kills the single target DPS potential of running shot + retreat shot. It also means that you won’t be able to slow walk retreat shot anymore which is a major kick in the face to SR’s. When we’ll get it is beyond anyone’s guess. But we have been getting some of the mechanic changes such as the emote + retreat shot “fix” so it’s highly probably we’ll be bound to get it eventually.

#32

THIS!

So basically, you need wall to hug 24/7 ust to make it fully utilize.

Let’s say:
Slow walk is 80% utilization - now its gone
Wall Running is 90-100% utilization
Emoticon spamming - 90-100% utilization
(please rate it according to your experience)

but I read that the emoticons spamming has been fixed. how bout in our iTOS server?

#33

We don’t have the emote + retreat shot. I tested it a while ago no shots come out at all.