Hi, all.
I’ve been lurking so far as I lvl up my Archer (QS1 right now) and I’m really into the gun aspect of it. Will most likely dive into A1->Q3->…
But I noticed that most of the material available fails to mention a Schwarzer Reiter as an endgame option. Is it simply inferior to Cann/Musk? What am I missing if I decide to go SR2 instead of either rank 7? What am I gaining with this option?
Thanks in advance!
The better question is why do people take SR C2 at all? I couldn’t find a single attribute or any reason to consider the scaling of level 10 retreat shot to be superior enough to level 5 to justify a whole rank in the skill simulator.
What am I missing? I only consider it at rank 6 for one circle when I’m playing with the idea.
Level 5 retreat shot only hit 5 mobs at once while level 10 retreat shot hit 10 mobs at once. If you want to take SR then you should commit to SR c2 because SR c1 is very weak and Imo not worth taking(lv 5 rs only hit 5 mobs and lv5 concentrate fire only hit 8 times)
That’s good to know.
But how’s a SR performance compared to those of Rank 7 classes? Why could/should I build one instead of the others mentioned (besides “because I want to”)? What’s the playstyle difference I should keep in mind? Or should I just skip him completely because it’s underdeveloped?
Like I said, I’m asking because there’s not much talk about him wherever I go. So, I’d like something to make an informed decision.
I aslo would like to know what are the pros and cons bettwen canoneer and schwarze reiter c2
I’ve been told not to get SR unless you’re taking up to C3. It’s that bad. Was planning to do a QS3 SR1 build as well but not anymore lol. It wasn’t very appealing to me anyway. Only reason why I wanted it was to avoid having to weapon switch which is what the musk/cannon does sometimes.
Now SR has a unique play-style that involves proper usage of Retreat Shot in order to maximize your damage. That involves either wall walking and slow walking.
Now for comparison,
Cannoneer has AoE burst, mainly just cannon blast. SR on the other had has a sustained AoE that’s far stronger if not the strongest Archer AoE with Retreat Shot (4.5k crits x 30)
Musketeer has single target burst. SR can burst too, but just not at the level of musketeers because of Headshot, Snipe and Covering Fire. But that doesn’t mean that SR can’t burst either. Concentrated Fire is often overlooked but it really is a strong burst (50k average on monsters my level - 252) and Wild Shot which is equivalent to a Lv10 Multishot.
For SR vs Musketeer, my verdict is SR with proper setup has higher single target damage than musketeer (refer to video below) but musketeer has more consistency due to not needing a wall.
For SR vs Cannoneer, SR has higher single target and a stronger AoE but that requires the full 10s Retreat Shot. Cannoneer on the other-hand fits a more fast paced play-style where you just need to quickly land in a burst. (Cannon Blast -> Circling + Multishot rotation)
Some quick notes.
SR skills scale nicely with AoE attack ratio. Concentrated Fire and Wild Shot can eventually become AoE skills. This can potentially make Concentrated Fire a strong AoE burst.
Retreat Shot also scales with movement speed. Lv10 haste from a chronomancer can increase the total shots released by Retreat Shot from 30 shots in 10s to 42 shots in 10s.
SR2 in Korea relied on a bug where if you cast retreat shot and spammed emotes, you would stand still and just unleash unholy amounts of damage on a target.
That’s been fixed now so SR2 is not as super OP anymore
Thanks for the answer, the skill simulator really needs to be updated then. Retreat shot doesn’t show aoe ratio being a factor in skill levels. I thought it was a true aoe and that was the appeal at least to me.
Afaik retreat shot at lvl 10 can hit only up to 10 monsters regardless of aoe ratio
Retreat shot is a very strong skill, but it need a good setup to able to hit every shot(Wall and a target which doesn’t attack you), you usually won’t be able to do this usually except at grind place with a lot of wall, dungeon with a lot of wall, and probably earth tower(not sure because i cant go there yet). 40 sec cooldown on RS is pretty long, so if you weren’t able to kill mobs on your first RS then you will have to kite the mobs for some time to wait for your RS cooldown. Hard setup and pretty long cooldown are the reason why it’s harder for SR to solo kill mobs compared to cannoneer and bossing compared to musketeer.
So if i compare sr, cannoneer, and musketeer:
Cannoneer
Musketeer
Schwarzer Reiter
Thanks, everyone. You painted a much clearer picture.
Now, for building him up, does a SR prefer taking a QS or Ranger path? I assume it changes significantly how a SR plays up, at least until Running/Retreat take over?
Imo it’s really all about personal preference. Ranger allows you to have a stronger AoE (Steady Aim + Retreat Shot) along with various other AoE skills. While Quarrel Shooter allows you to have a potentially stronger single target on top of Quarrel’s already sustained high single target with a semi-long AoE option (Retreat Shot technically has a 30s CD if you use the full 10s duration without breaking it - you yourself canceling it, monster can disable you but the 10s will still countdown)
Like Quarrel Shooters, SR skills also scales nicely with STR being multi hit.
Side note, I’ve met and awful lot of A2R3SR2 who are rather displeased by the combination. A2QS3SR2 on the other hand I’ve yet to hear complaints. I have noticed an increase in SR2 lately though.
Honestly the actual question here isn’t performance based at all. The REAL question about if SR is comparable to the other rank 7 classes is Party viability.
How often does a SR get parties in comparison to more AOE focused builds for storage//almeth grinds//Earth tower??
Looking at damage comparisons or Equipment means *** if you dont get grind parties or party invites to dungeons late game. From all the “experts” this game REQUIRES party setups late on towords 280 and with the fact that most times archers are the last thing on peoples lists (The ACTUAL problem with archer class, Priority order is Taunt (swordy) Heal (cleric) DPS(Anymage class//Linker) another mage class (Chrono, linker, Cryo3) and then maybe an archer and that’s only for the exp bonus.) The only thing archers do is deal damage in parties, and when mages do it better and we have no utility I really feel like im wasting my time leveling a SR when I know im not going to get any parties, because I don’t have a “cool” build with falconer and cannon//musket. Or wagu or whatever. Especially when all a musketeer or a cannoneer has to do is point and shoot. SR has to have multiple things to setup to deal effective damage at any given point (Walls, VARIOUS mechanic tricks and CD management.) And most mobs die before you can really get halfway through retreat shot.
Im still making my SR and I love the playstyle so far. But this is my question and opinion if anyone would like to shed light on it.
You can still do a lot of damage by doing auto-attack and retreat shot at the same time to slow your movement speed. i’ve never had a problem finding party for grind, maybe a bit harder compared to other class like pelt,healer, and chronomancer sometime(it’s actually all archer problem), but no one ever kicked me for being sr c2 when the party said “archer”.
I think that sr c2 still do a better amount of damage compared to cannoneer and musketeer when grinding(im a1=>r3=>rog1=>sr2). RS cooldown wont really be a problem when grinding with party because even if you didn’t kill the mobs with first rs, your party will kill it for you. I’m not really sure, but in term of aoe damage for grind party i think that sr outdps mage class too with rs and wall(especially with linker and chronomancer).
I appreciate that thanks. Im just tired of everything being a numbers check, when the real issue is getting parties to level up.
On a side note how do you like rogue with retreat shot? How consistant is it to hit from behind?
SR skill is very hard to hit from behind, but i still can do it for a short time if my party is tanking the mobs because the mobs usually switched agro to me after a few shot from rs.
To be honest that dmg you are doing is comparative to running shot + kneeling.
the whole benefit everyone forgets about musk is taking 1 c in Falcon for circling. That makes us have crazy AOE support for the entier party and ourselves.
Unlike SR which to me seem to be a “selfish” class in terms as it doesn’t bring support to the party in a whole but rather only for itself. Falcon circling can turn mages into literal death.
What I’m saying is don’t just judge the r7 classes by only r7 judge it by the entier class makeup.
You’re right the comparison should be done with the build as a whole. But I’m going to stop you right there if you’re going with kneeling shot + running shot cancel being comparable to retreat shot + running shot.
Without even pulling out the numbers and just looking at the skills.
Wall Running Shot does 1.78 attacks per second and that’s with the horrible lag in game atm. Base retreat shot with no movement speed does 3 attacks per second for 10s.
Running Shot + Lv5 Kneeling Shot cancel does 2.27 attacks per second according to Animation Canceling in ToS
So to make it relevant we’re only going to count the 10s of retreat shot’s uptime because of your statement
Running + Retreat
1.78 att/s x 10s + 3 att/s x 10s
You’d get 17.8 attacks from running and 30 attacks from retreat shot
Lv5 Kneeling + Running
2.27 att/s x 10s
You’d get 22.7 attacks
You’re going to compare 5 more attacks from running to a full 30 hits from retreat shot.
You speak of the number of attacks yes but you need to also factor in the dmg as well. Running shot at lv 7 as every QS has a GC at least for example is 320% bonus dmg. Throw in a DGC for even more dmg. Depending on how someone builds you can be looking at 10k autos.[ Mind you Lunar was state how he was getting 30k hits from retreat on rexi last night ] Factoring Running and kneeling the dmg can be higher than just running about.
I should also mention I am more of a dex build so aginst most bosses I’m running cafrisun gear as well. Chuck in the dmg from sanctum, blessing, fire enchant, and my own mana that all adds up as well.
I guess I look at it not based on the dmg per hit but the fact of the constant assault of hits the dmg can add up to be equivalent or equal to retreat based on the
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0ihHcO_g4g [ lv 130 i know bad comparison but this is what people use to show builds for some weird reason. ]
Mabey I am just partial to my own build because I have been able to out cube stacked dps with sub optimal gear. I just feel like overal all musk / falc combo can bring just as much single target dps and support to a team compared to an SR 2 . Throw in the fact of chrono and that is even more falcon up time. If you equate all the extra aoe dmg to the falcon that brings a lot more aoe dps then a SR could as it affects the entire party instead of just one persons numbers.