Tree of Savior Forum

Say Yes to job reset

General Discussion
#130

This has nothing to do with the distinction between casual and, wait, are you indirectly calling TOS a hardcore game?

The only thing TOS is hardcore at is trying to get you to pay for TP.

There’s a difference between not catering to “casuals” and just plain awful design (I.E. Most games 10-15 years ago which is why arguments based on Ragnarok are comedy).

You can’t whatsoever disapprove any of my presented hypothetical benefits of a class reset. All you (and all the others) do is sit there on your stump and say “No, yer wrong, not that kinda game. Go play an ez game you casual. NOPE. Muh diversity. Yer build is bad so REROLL”.

You have jack ■■■■ to actually disprove the rational arguments presented. I know it doesn’t exactly feel nice to realize such a thing, but maybe start seeing the light and just accept reality here and maybe things will start to look up in these threads.

3 Likes
#131

I think it’s pretty clear by now that we really aren’t the “vocal minority” lol

#132

No, there have been plenty of well thought out posts im just getting tired of it at this point. Yea, last post i simplified your reasons, but that was on purpose.

Hardcore games have more risk. You are trying to take out the risk, turning it casual. This game obviously has too high of a learning curve for you and can you cant fix your mistakes with a push of a button, so maybe you just shouldn’t waste your time with it.

As for the rest of your post its just a bunch of talk again, so i wont comment on it.

#133

What if… the “casuals” don’t use the forums so they can’t voice their opinion like most of you do?

It’s also selfish to not consider the other part of the playerbase, but to think the “hardcore” (aka people who have more time to play) own the game and it’s up to them to see what it is and what it will be. The staff will have the final word, not you. The arguments were exposed from both sides.

In the end of the day, MONEY is what matters. SOME people who invested money on their character and have to let it go might be unhappy with them. IMC on the other hand, are losing potential consumers this way. It’s matter of balance and it’s the company who manages the numbers, not you, not me. They’ll decide what is the best for this game.

I personally think the resets are a nice option. As I said in the other thread, having more players with optimal builds around HELPS YOU to find people to play with quickly. Making the grinding process quicker too. Unless you have a super private group of elitist hardcore players by your side (exaggeration intended), then it may not apply to you.

The scenario where people would exploit this is unrealistic, since it will be totally reestricted, either with a single or a couple of circle resets or to vanish all the levels they’ve attained (or attributes if it applies too). That’s the point of thinking on reestrictions, it’s not to discard the idea and that’s it. That’s the point of these threads, to DISCUSS how to make it viable for everyone and avoid a wrong use of this feature. It’s aimed to please the majority.

Btw, a possibly non-important remark: I’ve read through all discussions and I know what people are not worth responding because they completely miss the point or they just change the course of the discussion into irrelevant matters.

Again, sorry for my English.

1 Like
#134

No, you really are.

/20char

#135

As of now, you guys are the vocal minority of the vocal minority on this topic. LOL

#136

like wise.
/hesaysvocalminority

#137

Actually, if you check that, there are 196 guys supporting resets (splitted on two options) vs 243. There’s roughly a 20% of difference between both positions. The sample is still very small considering the thousand of players that play this game. I’d bet a lot of “casuals”, as you might call them, won’t use the forums that much either.

Optimal surveys are made in-game, like Blade and Soul did.

#138

From what I see, combining 1 and 3, we’re not that far off from you guys on this poll. And keep in mind this is one post of many posts of many forums.

#139

Which is why one of the common forum policies is keeping things is one thread, instead of 5-6 different ones.

As far as the time investment goes, I spend today grinding silver instead of trying to argue against brick (dense) walls, and I managed to make 600k silver (without even considering item drops) in the same amount of time.

I’m not sure people argue so strongly about wasting their time, when they are doing the very same thing on the forums…

Almost literally everything you write is extremely ironic. It’s almost like you are a PhD in Irony attempting to teach us (and very succesfully at that) how to properly use irony.

Then give more then talk. I’m still waiting to see a build that’s supposedly ruined beyond believe.
My own build has been on the forums for a while now (even down to the skill points since a day or two).

Then you will have to tell that to the number of people who argue that it’s the ‘‘hardcore players’’ who oppose resets.

#140

Hardcore has nothing to do with time. Hardcore games just has more risk. Casual games have no risk and dont require much though.

As for the thing about throwing your characters away, I like this idea.

Adding class resets would lose customers as well. Many people came to this game because it is like older mmos with a nice class system and no resets. Changing this would turn those players off.

#141

You have a Ph.D. in being a contrarian with every bit as little to add to these discussions as the next anti-reset sheep.

Except you somehow manage to do it in a way that makes people want to strangle you through the monitor so hats off to that.

1 Like
#142

I would be playing the game instead of roaming the forums. but I’m at work so…

Edit: this reply was meant for the other guy. Oops lol

#143

You should just give up trying to reason with these guys. They’re never going to listen or change their hypocritical minds lol.

#144

Are people making these threads now to gather likes!?

#145

I’m really going now, but i will leave on this note. Sorry its so long, but it might make some of you pro reset people think about things. This is a quote from a different games dev.

"Over the years many MMORPG designers, me included, have employed various devices and mechanics in order to increase our games’ subscription base.

We removed points of frustration (I termed them “quit points” at Mythic), sped up the leveling curve (the argument being that games should not be harder to level than WoW), highlighted evolutionary or revolutionary new features to differentiate our games from our competition (extremely guilty as charged your honor!) and others too numerous to describe here.

While this has brought about some very good innovations, it also resulted in the vast majority of MMORPGs becoming easier to player, simpler to master and more “hand-holding” that their earlier brethren.

These mechanics include speeding up of travel time (Players: “I don’t want to have to walk 20 minutes to get into the action because it feels like we are moving through mud”), lack of meaningful and/or punishing death penalties (Players: “OMG, I died because your random number generator is broken! It’s not my fault!”), fast leveling systems (Players: “I don’t want to max my character 12 months from now; I only play once a week”), auction houses (Players: “Don’t force me to interact with other players to sell/buy stuff. I have to do that in RL, I don’t want to do that in a game.”), easy to follow quest directions with full signage included (Players: “I don’t want to explore the world to find this NPC. I don’t have that much time to waste!”), etc. Players of course, relayed those “Player” statements to us back in my Dark Age of Camelot days on forums and through feedback/chat/Q&As/etc.

Now, none of these techniques is morally or ethically bad (since what is challenging for one gamer can be total frustration for another) nor are many players’ desires for an easier and faster playing game; and as a designer/developer/player, I absolutely agreed with some of them. However, with the implementation of some of these techniques, much of what made earlier MMORPGs and RPGs unique and challenging was lost.

Many developers/publishers were and are so afraid to let the players lose, make mistakes, suffer any inconvenience, etc., that we have created a feedback loop whereby many players expect spoon fed content that goes down real easy, shown how to do everything, directed so they can’t make serious mistakes, etc.

This has in turn caused many players and designers to lose touch with what made success in earlier MMOs really mean something. There are a plethora of clichés that I could choose right now but instead I will focus on “no risk, no reward.”"

Stay strong IMC. No resets.

3 Likes
#146

Since you guys do not know what minority means.

Definition: the smaller number or part, especially a number that is less than half the whole number.

56>44

And I said, as of now, it could change.

#147

Well when we’re discussing vocal minority, it’s a coined term, meaning a small group of people frequently voicing their opinion

#148

BINGO, You win!.

/20char

#149

… my point being we’re not small. But ok lol