Tree of Savior Forum

Remove all stat giving items/bonuses from the cash shop

Suggestions Game
#1

Think I’m being unreasonable? Think it can’t be done? Think imc are going to be too poor?

Well, then take a look at:


Impossible you say! They won’t make any money those poor imc devs!

Well feast your eyes:

When action-RPG Path of Exile was launched last year, developer Grinding Gear Games was clear. It would be an “ethical” free-to-play without any compromises to the evils of pay-to-win.

That meant no XP boosts or weapon upgrades, just for flashing a credit card. No expensive steeds or portals for fast-traveling. No intrusive ads and invitations to spend money on fancy new characters.

So how has the Diablo 2-style game been faring in the rough and tumble of the actual, open market?

Pretty good, it turns out. The New Zealand developer boasts over 5 million registered players with “hundreds of thousands” playing at any given time. Its first major expansion, Sacrifice of Vaal, is out next week.

“We probably would be making more income if we were pay-to-win,” said lead programmer Jonathan Rogers. “But the game is doing very well. We paid off our development costs, the company is making enough money to expand.”

So the big question to imc is: Do you want to create a legacy, a community? Or do you want a quick buck?

12 Likes
[Poll] If the ToS cash-shop were to become costumes/vanity only (MK2)
[Mega Polls!] Regarding some of the big hot button issues to be used as feedback for imc
Don't remove magic scrolls
Make The Game B2P & Get Rid Of ALL Restrictions/Limitations
#2

The OP actually has some substance in his argument compared to the other threads about the scrolls. So, I support this thread.

I’ve played path of exile for a little while and I believe if that game can do it, it is possible for TOS. I hope if the devs dont change current plans, at least they will keep this in mind for the future.

I will say that I dont mind the current stats on the tokens though.

1 Like
#3

Exp pots and weapon upgrades are not P2W.

#4
4 Likes
#5

Um… ~43% of dedicated fans who come to this forum think that for example, magic scrolls which add stats to hat costume pieces should be removed, ~15% of people think that those scrolls are still too powerful as is:

The bigger issue is that even though you personally are okay with these decisions that imc is making, many many players are not.

If you’re in charge of a company, why would you make the decision to alienate/annoy ~43% of your possible user base to make money? Some people argue that imc needs these kinds of items to make a profit off their product, but what I have shown in my opening post is that, you don’t need this kind of exploitative monetization model which preys on people who can get addicted to gambling the RNG items, in order to succeed.

#6

Glad that I’m not the only one who think the game can survive without stat giving items.

Hope IMC reconsider the cash shop

4 Likes
#7

If they made their cash shop pay to style only, I would be (and I’m very confident many others would be) more than happy to buy costumes and to really heavily support imc. There are so many awesome possibilies! Alternative animations for skills, new costumes, awesome skins or costumes even for pets!

But as I and perhaps many others have noticed… ToS will have the token system which is estimated to cost ~$20 a month for people ‘subscribing’. The fact that they also want to have a cash-shop where people can gamble for stats far more easily than non cash-shop players, is just being greedy in my opinion. It really makes it harder for me to want to support imc with further purchases with this situation.

4 Likes
#8

I agree, Path of Exile really should be taken as a modern standard on how to create a succesful F2P game

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#9

Could you pleaaaaaase take PoE with a grain of salt? Yes, you are correct it is an "Indie"game that is successful. BUT, do you know what a Platinum supporter is? Community members who literally payed over 10k as a founder contribution. And PoE has several of those people. PoE has a very seclusive Hardcore community to the grade that they literally excommunicate you when u try to argue against their game in any sense.
I played that game excessively for a while. Trust me you cant compare PoE’s success with what games like ToS are capable of. Because here people would cry and whine about it if IMC would offer extra compensation for people who literally pay 10k up front just like that. PoE is carried by its Elite, hardcore D2 community. ToS does not have that. Infact no other game thats fresh, has that. So please for God’s Sake if you want to keep PoE as an example please start enforcing Donation methods to IMC so people can pay them thousands of Dollars so the game IMC wants to make becomes their game not what NEXON allows them to make.
Because you the player’s would become the sponsors in place of nexon. That is what happens with poe btw. Just saying.

1 Like
#10

what a sound argument 43% of dedicated fans, a poll which only consists of 400+ votes. oh wait it’s not even 400 votes

#11

Point well taken. I was a gold founder (<3 my golden kiwi) back in the day and had and from time to time still have a really great time :slight_smile:

As I recall, most of those packages had a bunch of physical swag and often included meetings with the devs to design a unique item, unique monsters, and unique pets. If someone really wanted to get that involved it would certainly be an awesome experience at least in my mind and it adds content to the game for other players to experience. I don’t see who it would hurt…

#12

Well yeah… that’s what polling is though… you’re taking a sample that you hope is from a representative slice of a relevant population (in this case ToS players).

What factors make you think the polls that I have posted would be biased towards one group of players over another?

#13

Luckily ToS has every single old Ragnarock “hardcore fan”… if we go by the numbers i’d say PoE hardcore community is outnumbered by far.

I still can’t get over people trying to defend the system ToS have at this moment. I mean it’s like saying: “ehy, remember the revolution in france? remember how the nobles were acting? remember how they were all killed by the people? THAT IS THE PERFECT SYSTEM EVER EVERY COUNTRY SHOULD BE LIKE THAT!”

What i mean is, like history teach something about that way of doing things is wrong, history already tells us that the way ToS is atm is doomed since the Korea version that has, at this moment in time, even less limitations then the International one as far as i know (i heard they have more dungeons run), is doing extremely bad due to all the limitations.

IT’s not like we have to wait and play and find out if it0’ll be bad or not, WE ALREADY KNOW it will be bad since it was already done, with the very same game, and it didn’t work.

THere is no way in hell that by repeating the same mistake the result would change… in fact this is the real definition of “folly”: doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

#14

Successful? Why do you think Path of Exile is successful? Path of Exile doesnt come close to big P2P or B2W MMORPGs out there.

#15

Of course nobody would be hurt. But there would still be a lot of people crying and whining how otehrs get to make items and they dont, because people turn everything as miniscule as it is into “p2w” if it fits their own scheme. Eventhough the targetet feature etc. is a great way to give the community a good way to contribute. There will always be butthurt peole and thsoe will ALWAYS be the vocal ones.

Please dont compare an historical event in which hundreds of thousands died with a game in that way. Yes it gets the point across but still.
No if you truly think that the RO community outnumbers the Diablo 2 Community which is pretty much what makes up the bulk of the PoE community you are sorely mistaken. Ragnarok was never as successful as Diablo 2 was and never will.
Eventhough in my personal opinion RO was the best MMO i ever played.
The 1:1 trading on Tokens is okay in my opinion btw. What imo is not okay is the Auctionhosue taxation without it as it pretty much cripples nonpayers. Not that, to be honest, it concerns me as I gladly pay for games anyways if i enjoy them. And if you enjoy them and play them more then you would play a triple A title i think you should actually feel obliged to pay something. In that sense you wont be concerned anyways. I mean yeah of course you can use the service for years without paying and still cry and whine about everything(eventhough you have no right to imo as you are not conbtributing to the survival of the game anyways only to the polar opposite)
NOW, as i already stated elsewhere: Stats are for a small company a way to make a sure fire profit from their cash shop as people will feel compelled to get them. What IMC does different though(or more like RO in that sense) is the fact that stuff you buy from the Cashshop is marketable.
People can buy Cash items from people who are willing to pay real money. Thats not “pay 2 win” thats “donating to the poor”. So in my opinion the only thing apalling on the Token is the Tax reduction.
As the marketplacetax shouldnt be that high to begin with.
As for the movementspeed, in PvE nobody cares about it and if you want to “competetivly” play pvp you would invest a lot of time intoi the game anyways and would most likely buy the Token anyways(maybe from the marketplace so you dont even have to pay for it irl!) so they have the buff anyways, if the buff is even usable in arena which I think it isn’t.
And the scrolls are just a little thing, yes i see where you are coming from,
with the whole “its a gateway yada yada” thing.
Thats a high possibilty of course, but the way IMC is ressisting
NEXON(god i hate em) atm in putting even the scrolls as drop into the game so even nonpayers have a chance to get that stuff without even paying silver. Alas at a horrifyingly bad rate but atleast its there.
P.S.: It’s NEXONdeciding whats sold and whats not. Not IMC. IMC has no talking rights there or they lose their sponsor and the game outright dies.
Maybe that opens some eyes…sigh

#16

Why does imc need to be defended? They know their financial situation better than you or I. If they actually can’t afford what myself or others have proposed or if they’d rather not due to risk aversion or greed or whatever reason, then they’ll just ignore it. Simple.

I know why I’m worked up in my posts, because as a fan I see some monetization strategies that I believe will drive other potential consumers and fans away.

So what does one hope to accomplish by defending the status quo? If one says “look this company needs to make money, we should just accept things as they are”, is that convincing to potential wary customers? I personally don’t think so…

#17

Magic scrolls is decent income for IMC… Just remove aoe attack ratio and %30 less powerfull stats… Then limit it’s roll 1-2 enchant per accessory (when u find perfect stats u can buy an apperance coppy item on cash shop and combine ur perfect stat accessory with “looking cute accessory” for u)

With roll limits there will be more enchanted accessories on market for F2P users… Everyone can buy with 1-2 mil silver…

2000$ payer player for magic scrolls can reach %95 perfect stats… While players who is bought on market, reach %75-85 perfect stats with 5-10 mil silver (bcoz who is wanna reach %100 perfect stats must create a looottt of enchanted accessorry)

Edit: +%10 m.speed with token is unacceptable… +%20 m.speed for out of combat is better… with +%10 m.speed enemies on open world pvp (GvG) is not fair…

Ps: sorry for my enguriush

1 Like
#18

IMC are Korean company. Have you ever seen any F2P game with no P2W shop coming from Asian developers? I have not. So just play the game for the first 2-3 months before donators get too powerful and forget the game exists.

#19

Then, there is absolutely no harm in making it known that western players would like a F2P mmo with no P2W cash shop.

I’m trying to make for a positive change for this game, even if it’s highly unlikely.

If you decide it’s impossible from the start, then yeah, it’ll stay that way.

#20

What makes you think its unsuccessful? You don’t need to have as many players as league of legends or WoW to be successful.

I consider that successful. Not changing things just to make some extra money or just to get a few more subscriptions is a big plus IMO.

I’m hoping IMC keeps their word

[Q12: In my opinion, this is the most important question. The game is Pay to Win or Pay to Play? Will gamers’ skill make a difference?

(Everybody was laughing at this question)

imcGAMES: The thing with our CEO, Kim Hakkyu is he does not like Pay to Win.

Kim Hakkyu: The last thing Tree of Savior will be is Play to Win.](http://treeofsaviorgame.com/tos/813/brasil-tos-questions-answers-with-imcgames/)