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And here lies the huge and glaring flaw in your argument. You don’t get to re-define p2w to suit your argument. The CORE of p2w is the EXCLUSIVITY of paid benefits and NOT “who paid for them”. p2w benefits are 100% exclusive, not 90% not 50% not 10%. That means non-transferable at all.
I mean look at your arguments.
Implying these items are non-transferable to the point only those who paid can have them. But they’re accessible to ANYONE on the market. If anyone can get them (regardless of means, because that is not what is being questioned) then the argument is FALSE.
Working “harder and longer” and longer includes making money. For this argument I make the assumption that “farming harder and longer” falls under “working harder and longer”. Farming harder and longer can generate money to the point anyone can afford said benefits from the market.
These arguments hinge on people accepting this definition that you conveniently “made up” to suit your arguments.
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As long as the user have the intention to pay, theyre classified as paying customers regardless of when there going to pay. Free users in itself dont have the intention at the very start, thats why theyre called like that. Lets say this particular rich player who dont have time, but will only spend on items that have “stats” on them hoping to be at par to free players. So how are you going to attract paying people like that? Youre going to shut the door for that type of people because he is yet to pay from cash shop? Making this game with the intention to attract “free” players with tears, blood and sweat only? Those arent free players but prospective paying customers youre hoping to attract. Customers are customers, attracting them comes on different form via cash shops and premiums or contents. Free players got its name for obvious reasons.
P2W has no strict definition. It varies from person to person if something is perceived to be P2W. By the way Token is 100% exclusive from IMC cash shop and Magic scroll is essentially 100% exclusive from cash shop (so I heard). Try making these items in game without going through IMC’s cash shop, you’ll have to hack the server database to make it happen. You argument is just semantics what you consider to be exclusive or not.
They are accessible to anyone who has sufficient silver on the market IF the paying player decides to list them. You aren’t going to see that perfectly rolled triple enchanted headgear to be on the market because no one will list it (kept for their own use). There’s also the problem of gathering sufficient silver to purchase for these items in a consistent manner (Tokens / magic scroll), therefore the argument still stands that even if you can trade them through the market, it doesn’t automatically make it directly (/ easily) accessible for F2P players. In that case, you will see a power gap between F2P (at the very least the poorer subgroup of F2P) & paying players.
Again your argument is just semantics, trying to disguise the fact that the market do not GENERATE items, only players (paying) that list them do.
Market economics will correct prices as inflation rises. Prices aren’t static. To be able to consistently afford these cash shop items you need to consistently out farm the typical player base. Which means certain portion of the F2P players will never be able to afford it, again creating an arbitrary power gap.
Let me give an example to this using Blade and Soul. That game has a very “gold based” game overall mechanic.
For example if you go into a dungeon and an item drop you don’t get it instead an auction start and whoever player in the party bid the higher price for it gets it.
If you want to move from one place to another you got to pay gold.
If you want to craft you pay gold.
If you want to upgrade your equip to the last stage you have to pay like 1000% more money that you will eer have made in game by that point (at lvl 45 by questing you’ll have about 5 gold, you will need like 150)
The point is, “CURRENCY DROPS ONLY FOR SUBSCRIPTION PLAYERS”.
In this case the subscription becomes higly pay to win since it gives enormous advantages to pay to play customers and it really can get bad.
Just to make an example: if a pay to play “troll” player decides to piss of everyone else he will be able to bid for every item in a dungeon run ruiing the game for everyone and noone would be able to stop him because he will have the money to do so thanks to his subscription.
So i repeat, in this particular case that feature is extremely pay to win.
For ToS is different, but the stat boosters are P2W nevertheless.
I just wish those stats would be disabled during PvP and everything would be fine… the advantages player get from that stat boosters will be "an acceptable luxury as far as PvE is concerned BUT there would be absolutly no player gap in PvP
I was pointing out that “a single player” is not the likely scenario, and that the power gap will be between the paying vs the non paying. In an averaged out circumstance, you’re going to have F2P and P2W on both sides so it averages out (assuming guilds don’t recruit only P2Ws, once P2W matures though… its a different story.)
Regardless the main argument wasn’t on GvG, it’s that your argument that these stats are insignificant is internally inconsistent.
These are mutually exclusive statements. If it is insignificant, it should have no appeal. If it has appeal, it must be significant in someway.
The only possible scenario for your claim to even make remote sense would mean that:
-
Deceit: The appeal of the stat is fake - It’s a scam where you see it advertised but has no actual in game function. We know that this cannot possibly be true. Something sold for +10 bonus HP will give +10 bonus HP in game.
-
Buyer stupidity: The stats actually have no significance but somehow they think it has appeal. But that is claiming that players will buy +10 charisma (not an in game stat) just because it has “appeal”.
Neither scenario is plausible.
The problem with your argument is simply one of logic. You’re claiming that something is insignificant yet has appeal to the buyer.
e.g.
- Buying a 2L car, versus the 2.01L car. Insignificant, no appeal.
- Buying a 2L Car, vs a 4L car. Significant difference, appeal is in the larger engine volume.
You can’t be Buying 2L car, vs a 2.01L car, call it insignificant difference, yet claim that it has more appeal than the 2L car (ignoring external factors like price)
Has anyone here mentioned the insta-revive item available from the Cash shop? It revives your avatar on the spot with full health. Kinda renders resurrection spell useless. It can be used in GvG, as of right now, so that means that the team with the most Soul Stones wins.
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Looks like it’s time fo make a thread about that fnagz22. 
I’m surprised the white knights haven’t flocked here in a search and destroy mission. I tried making the suggestion to make Tokens purchasable in game from NPC’s so other players couldn’t get rich(ingame) from selling them and I was flagged, because “IMC makes less money” that way.
They are here. There’s a perfectly good summary of points that they have made
and busted.
P2W matures? Only hats give stats and there’s a limit on what it gives, oh boy, more people going into more hypothetical situations.
#2 is my point, people don’t understand how impactful these stats are in-game. At a visual point of view it appeals to players but is it game-breaking? People already ran the numbers, find them.
Your last statement, what? That’s literally what’s going on here.
2.01L car are the P2W hats.
“Oh boy, the car seller is telling me this 0.5% increase is going to be amazingly better! Unfortunately it costs more but w0w an extra .01L than the 2L, must be better right?”
Proceeds to buy the 2.01L car, will you notice a difference from the 2L, no. It’s literally 0.5% increase.
Like literally you guys are examples of this, the movement speed buff that everyone is shitting their pants over, you’ll barely notice the difference and it doesn’t even apply in Arenas.
And to top it off, the magic scrolls can be obtained in-game. You people are never satisfied.
Glad to see some people actually care what happens to this game and know enough about what can kill it, to warn the others. If only we are heard, however…
If it truly had appeal, you don’t need a car seller to convince you a 0.5% increase actually had appeal. It is precisely because it has no appeal that it needs convincing.
That 0.01L has no appeal and has no significance. Stretching logic isn’t going to work here.
Back to topic. The magic scroll and move speed is put there to entice the player base to pay for them (has appeal), therefore it must have significance (unless you claim that the player base is case no 2).
Since the stats has a significance, it means that it will create a power gap between people who have it and people who don’t. Cash shop items are likely limited, so the price for it will likely be high, thus at least a certain portion of the population will not have access to it. Hence P2W is established.
Well there are
THE END IS COMING BOYZ ITS ALL P2W LETS ALL QUIT THE GAME IS DEAD ALREADY AND BROKEN AND TRASH
guys and there are
OK OK BOYZ LETS DISCUSS THIS WE ALL AGREE WE DONT WANT A P2W MODEL HAPPEN IN THIS GAME WE ALL JUST WANNA PLAY AND ENJOY PLUS THROW IN SOME MONEY TO KEEP IT RUNNING RIGHT
guys
if the first ones read “p2w” in a reply of one of the 2nd guys theyre all out aggro and talk trash without any reason behind it
i mean come on - exp booster p2w? (i still dont like them but…) magic scrolls on headgear p2w? none of this is “casher exclusive” and none is p2w - if youre afraid of p2w stuff to happen its ok but trash talking a company or the game itself because youre too stubborn to realise that none of this is p2w in any way? and im not talking about the high and mighty personal opinion…its common sense x.x and those who play p2w games know it themselfs how such shops work >.>
its basically like this: content releases - they implement stuff wich makes it easy for casher to dominate - to be untouchable - to clear content without efford - without free player beings able to catch up no matter what they do - its simply impossible for free player - and once another new content releases itll most likely have a new feature to spend hundrets of $ to win in any aspect of the game(clearing pve wich is impossible for free player - being untouchable again in pvp and im not talking about 100 stats difference i am talking about having 1 million hp and getting 1000 damage from a free player while the massive casher is dealing a million and most of the time 1-2 shotting the free player)
now tell me do such silly headgears make it impossible for you to “win” in whatever kinda stuff you wanna win - if that player is “better than you” without headgears wich give a slight stat advantage then excuses like “you damn casher i kill you if you had no headgear” pop…ya sure yawns these headgears (as for now) are not content dependant aka they are trash as soon as new content releases - you keep them forever and in a few months every free player whos spending lotsa time will be able to create their own nice headgears or trade them for something else
pulling the p2w card for each and every item only shows how inexperienced some player are in terms of “p2w games” - and thats not an opinion thats a fact based on above examples
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People that cry p2w on any thing are just people that want free thing and dont want to pay for any thing.
Kinda pointless to argue at this point when most people that uses the forum already “paid” for early access. So your point is really a biased opinion.
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well if thats your definition of free and paying users then i rest my case. cant argue any more with it since it will take us nowhere and will waste more time
To play, is to pay with time and along either friends or money.
Some can do time, some time and friends/money or both.
Either way, there is always a price to play and some could afford to pay it better. It’s unthinkable to be emotionally affected by those who could.
This is the reality that makes the world goes round and fun is in the eyes of the beholder.
But you know , there is always an exit door out of that "play"world.
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I really love how you like to pick certain points in my post and reply to a small portion of it.
Magic scrolls can be obtained in-game.
I’ll repeat myself one last time since you’re clearly missing my point.
People. Do. Not. Realise. How. Much. Of. A. Small. Impact. These. Stats. Actually. Have. In. Game. They. Simply. Think. w0w. Stats. On. Something. That. Didn’t. Originally. Have. Stats. = OP. There’s. A. List. Of. What. Stats. And. The. Max. Stats. The. Hat. Can. Give.
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I hate spoiled children who abuse the word “p2w” without knowing what it actually means.