Tree of Savior Forum

Open world pvp suggestions won't be implemented (anytime soon)

General Discussion
#1

Finally had time to write up why all these open world pvp suggestions probably won’t be implemented.

Emergent gameplay bring out emergent behavior especially in context with open world pvp as well as other points I will note down here.

More often than not extreme amounts of griefing and player hating/sniping grow from this particular system more than other devised systems such as organized arenas or large scale GvGs and in turn that same behavior can cross over into the non pk channels. You have now just augmented more unwanted toxicity than it needed to be just by allowing ‘optional’ pk channels.

Now before I go on from here and so you don’t get the wrong idea. I love PvP. I love competition.

I’ve had my fair share of notable achievements in the MMO as well as the FPS world throughout my life. I understand the experiences of both sides of the coin, good and bad, it’s just that I’m now also working in the industry as well so this type of thinking and why and how a decision possibly is made is also part of how I process and analyze game design.

Now I’m not saying open world pvp is a failure of a system, it’s great! We see this in A LOT of games it’s just not something that will work for this game. You don’t see open world pvp in every mmorpg.

When you are designing a game the story/lore(world building) and game design go hand in hand. They compliment each other and move content creation and mechanics forward to be produced.

You have to build Open world PvP in mind and implement it within your foundation early on in a specific way the studio sees fit. To give a recent example, look at Archeage. Open world PvP was designed early on with game design.

Pvpcentric people here are essentially asking the developers to ‘slap on open world pvp’ just because they prefer it even if the studio has already planned an implementation of another pvp option some other way already. Currently how the story has unfolded this would just undermine the whole point of the narrative and lore and would hurt the game more than not.

During meetings it’s not just game designers making decisions. A multitude of people from all areas of work join and pitch in on decisions from the writers to the art directors and programmers…etc

This is why they are more likely to do an similar WoE largescale PvP system because there is a true purpose/relevance in tying to the story/lore. Having a PvP channel and seeing revelators who are supposed to save the world together smack the ■■■■ out of each other from the beginning of the game to the end is funny but you’re hurting and insulting another aspect of the game severely because of it.

Based off from how they are handling the story and lore so far I see they really care about this game and how their world works so seeing open world pvp slapped on is not going to happen.

You can laugh at me and tell me so if it does happen, it’s just really unlikely to happen. Sticking to my cards.

Also check this suggestion out if you’d like!

11 Likes
Thoughts on adding Open World PVP to the game
Tree of Savior & A PK System
#2

Three words:

OPTIONAL
PK
Channel

There, I destroyed your wall of text.

Also there was no need to make a new thread, you could have posted it here.

I’m not sure why people keep pretending we want to force PK onto everyone when we don’t stop repeating that we just are interested in a separate channel.

10 Likes
#3

I completely and whole hardheartedly disagree with you. I’ll use EverQuest as my example. The game wasn’t built for PVP. It wasn’t balanced for PVP and didn’t appear to make any changes for the PVP servers they opened up. They just made pvp servers with the ruleset of the game they made.

But in this game people are just asking for an extra Open World PVP Channel which is even easier because if it gets toxic or people don’t like it, they can just switch to a normal channel. Getting greifed and don’t want to move? Just switch channels. Find out you don’t like pvp-Don’t go to the PVP channel.

Saying it hurts the lore is a down right silly accusation and would only make sense if everyone playing was roleplaying 100% of the time and out of character chat wasn’t allowed. Otherwise people talking about their lives, or the grind, doesn’t make sense from a lore perspective either.

I would agree that it is unlikely to happen just because they didn’t plan for it. But if you are worried about how a pvp channel would impact you-Just don’t go to it. Boom, problem solved. You won’t see people fighting each other, you won’t be grieved, and all your points practically go away.

8 Likes
#4

So basically
-it will lead to griefing
-it doesn’t fit the lore

a lotof the pvp enthusiasts want a pvp channel which would limit griefing to only that channel. As for lore it kinda actually fits the lore haha, world in chaos after the goddesses left us and now its a dog eat dog world with a few prognitors (or whatever we’re called, i forget) running around believing they are the chosen one.

#5

Here

BUT I’m sure in 4-5 years they will do a Channel or even a server dedicated to PVP but for now THERE WILL BE NO PVP CHANNELS NOR SERVERS.

#6

we know, they plan it not to have PK/OWPVP and thats y theres a PK topic in features>feedback after CBT.

because theres still an audience for PK/OWPVP who felt d game is lacking after testing the iCBT.

#7

That won’t stop us from keep showing interest and let them know that there is a big audience for it.

1 Like
#8

not pk channel, pk server better

#9

Im against a mmorpg that doesnt support open world pvp ( atleast have duels 1v1 )

makes the game just a bunch of grind fest, race to endgame content… openworld pvp makes you go out of your way from leveling and have some fun along those progessions…

1 Like
#10

As much as I like open world pvp, I think you accuratly described what ToS is lol

#11

You wanna have fun? go pvp people that are ready to pvp, not randoms even my dog could defeat please.

Things to do on a game with no “open world pvp”:

  • Make friends
  • Make party for hard bosses(Pretty sure we’ll have quite a lot on this game)
  • Talk to people who are on your grinding zone, its one of the best ways to minimize griefing(Yes, shocking, talking to people helps)
  • Crafting
  • Competitive pvping(not killing randoms)
  • Large scale pvping/gvg(most likely going to be implemented)
  • Raiding/high level dungeons
  • Make alts to try out a lot of classes
  • Find hidden classes (on this game).

And I could keep going for hours lol

3 Likes
#12

One way to look at it is that they had multiple channels, if they planned to implement it it would have been in the game.
Random question: Do these extra channels cost money to host?

They are only suggestions, we will only know they will be implemented when we see them. You can argue or reason all you want, we just have to wait for the developers to make the calls.

#13

You have to remember they do listen to feed back though. And as long as they are listening to feedback it makes sense to give feed back about what you want. .

Otherwise there would be no point for a feedback forums (Though you could make a good argument this belongs in the Beta Feedback section) lol.

#14

Im up for whatever pvp types they have to offer. Im not a big fan of PK. I hate the idea of grinding and mobbing a huge mob almost clearing it with what little hp you have left, only to have a Pker come and snag you. Hence, a pk channel. IMO its a waste of space. Now if this was a faction base game and your job was to protect your keep or castle or area (Warhammer) from enemy faction, then it would make more since. A 1v1 or pvp arena to test your build for Woe type pvp, team arena base pvp, Rank pvp or GVG would be nice.

#15

For me i just want a PvP map, same as RO, you talk to npc get warp to a certain map that PK is enable, no rules no objective nothing!! Just a map with PK enable,… I just dont like MMO PvPs this days pushing Objective in every aspect of the game, atm our pvp is either 1v1 or 5v5 which you are force to kill each other, why not let people have their own enemy? And friends in pvp? Sit in PvP chat and test things out, someone comes in kill you guys then trash talk,… All hell break lose

1 Like
#16

“imcGAMES: We will see how the players react to our PVP system.”

…saw this at 2p.com, when the owner of tosgame was interviewing imcGames.

Blurr's Thoughts on a PVP Channel
#17

Are you saying that it is a waste of space because you don’t like the idea of getting PK’d?

What kind of ridiculous argument is that?

2 Likes
#18

I would like to see PK! Duel! and then Party vs Party specially in the Boss Area where everyone will engage into fights just to get the boss, it’ll create a healthy competition and dromo!. It’ll make the Guild war more interesting also the WOE (if they gonna have one)

#19

@Narue
There were multiple threads of PvP channel/server implementation discussions so I’m directly acknowledging all of them from here.

Maybe I didn’t explain the overall message better. Objectively this is why something as controversial as this might not get put in from a game development standpoint at launch or anytime soon. There’s a lot of mixed feelings so implementation even if some users say they want something like a PvP channel won’t be put in.

My analysis and take on a separate channel is a nod to the amount of social stigma/practice of griefing/toxicity that comes from pure open world pvp where that type of negative attitude can bleed over to non pvp channels at the click of a button (your not going to stay in an underpopulated PvP channel forever) --> moves to channel 1). It’s easier for this to happen because of the persistence between the whole server using channels.

By fully separating PvE and PvP servers you attempt to separate likeminded individuals into their own stock fully. There is a different social balance and atmosphere between the two servers. This is why PvE and PvP channels aren’t used by a lot of companies. They have publishers who pay to have things like this analyzed because overall griefing and negativity ruin game experience and they make less money from customers. Period. Why do you think games like League of Legends burn through so much money on community plans and systems for positive play. Now you know why they have servers. I understand you have strong desire for this kind of thing just thought I’d get you ready if it doesn’t happen anytime soon.

@imissbrooke32
Hey there! Interesting example you decided to use. Always good to give a nod to one of the forefathers that helped pioneer modern day MMORPG’s. From how pipeline development goes if it wasn’t planned beforehand this is what you’ll get. Every studios pipeline is slightly different from one another but in general you’re not going to see it in the near future.

@Torrel
Hey there in this specific circumstance no. Read what I said to @Narue !

@Loztchild
Ahh thanks for that link man. Good to know now. Guess my thoughts were correct.

@theo4595
There is another large scale PvP system they are developing we still haven’t tried it’s not fair to really say lacking yet especially in an icbt that wasn’t focused on that aspect really.

@blazinedge
Yes it’s cheaper to have channels compared to servers in terms of infrastructure (server costs + bandwidth)

Fear not though guys, I know these types of discussions really do help devs. I’m not saying they aren’t listening or reading your feedback but a lot of factors go into that isn’t just something to add.

If anything these type of controversial debates will help shape what they will do with the future large scale PvP they are working on.

My guess would be try to give their WoE like system more feeling of open world PvP while still remaining structured.

Like I said they are under development pipeline deadlines. If something comes up the best they can do is try to continue to finish what’s planned but keep what you guys want in mind and see how they can creatively design certain aspects of what we want into things being created already.

#20

Hi My Brother Mafia Panda