Tree of Savior Forum

Musings on iToF Balance - Chapter 0 - 'Salt-free' supplements to iToS Balance series

Recently after much playing of iToF, I come to realised that it too, is unbalanced, similar to what the parent game ToS is. While I try to make this as salt-free as possible, some parts still need to be taken with some amount of salt. The amount varies from player to player to dev, so do get ready your canisters of NaCl.

The importance of fostering a healthy community in MMOs

MMOs are all about communities. As in, why bother to play an MMO when one doesn’t care about interacting with others and how one affects others? With the digital age, people sought after reviews from users prior to even trying out a product. For MMOs more so, people do get influenced by how the community is before even trying it out. How many times have we decide to go for a restaurant or use a product based off reviews from the internet? How many times has a series of reviews and complains deter us to even try out a product or service?

Everything goes hand in hand

An MMO IP can’t survive without a good community. It is the community that will decide whether a MMO will thrive or die. An ideal, perfect MMO will not even survive if the community shuns it. Similarly, a bad game with an active community behind lasts and has time to improve.

One must take note that being a healthy community doesn’t mean that we should sing praises and forget all the shortcomings of the MMO all the time. Complains and feedback is always good to let the developers know how to improve the game and what their audience actually wants. Being healthy here means the community extrudes a feeling making others want to join the family and not leave it. And a healthy community invokes more interest in the MMO and revitalises the playerbase.

On iToF’s influence on iToS

One thing to note that iToF, reddit and Steam forums have big influence on the current players mentality and the ability of the game to attract new blood. Many of the players in game shun iToF due to its heavy ‘Yin’ influcences, it affects their mood to play the game. Personally many of my friends also decide not to ToS a try due to the general negativity in the forums. Perhaps that’s why we are leaking so many players, so much outflow but no inflow. Here I must quote what said by my RL friends:

The general forums feel so divided. Those complains felt that they are seeking to bring the game down rather than helping it improve. Others look oblivious to the game’s shortcomings, equally bad.

.

Seeing how the community is like on forums, I feel no confidence in the game. What kind of game attracts what kind of players.

As salty as we may be on such comments, needless to say what we type here have influence in shaping how the game will be and how the future ToS community will be like. It depends solely on us on what we want the game and community to be.

Though divided into factions, the hues, whites, flames, greys and all… are we as one or are we not?


Solution minus (-)

No solution given here by Nekorin. Let your own feelings dictate what you want to do.


Ending notes:
Btw, do ask the moderators to participate more in the forums. Even if they hold a small question and answer as a thread weekly will be really great.

Eg. Devs: We know that transcendence is viewed differently in the community than what we envisioned. Community what’s your take on it?

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That’s sad, took time to write this piece of post with so much TLC >.>. It is actually one of my shorter posts though :3

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I did read and I do think that I’m wrong on a lot of my things I posted. Rethinking my posts and actions around here, thanks for worrying with the community and actually getting to make a topic about it.

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Ironically many things in TOS are easier to run solo than in a party (such as uphill)

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What did you mean by no solution? The solution was obvious since the start. The staffs have to show more dedication than ToF players. So far, I see no such trend. The staffs are just stalking the forum from time to time, and enjoy their leisure weekends as if the game is bug-free during weekends. No 24/7 customer support despite the game being advertised as an international game. Nobody know their mind works. From their actions, all we know is they think differently from the rest of the world, and always go for the worst possible choice.

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Yeah, that’s the sad part. We are like islands instead of being linked together like continents. ToS is mostly solo currently.

@silverx093
The purpose of this post is more for our community than the devs, which is why I don’t post solutions as I don’t want to tell others what to do. Each and everyone of us have our own thinking and should respect each other’s opinions.

For the devs side I agree with what you say. They do need to buck up on making the forums a more condusive place for us, like providing support through weekends and holidays and interacting more in the forums by posting.

Those past days ToF may have been chaotic indeed, and as you perfectly said there are two clear sides of our community - the ones who got tired of giving feedback without response and got tired and the ones who still believe in imc - as I said plenty of times, if we hate this game or isn’t just made for what we are looking for, we move on and that’s all.

But we are here and even if we have different point of view there is a clear denominator, we want this game to succeed (not going into further points of views tho), but this isn’t possible for us, gm’s/staff/devs and imc in general are the ones who should carry this, I do agree that this can be hard, but they never heard any feedback and barely moved a finger, looks like their only interest is making money taking the less care as they can of this game.

Basically there isn’t any possible solution if the guys who manage this aren’t doing anything, and as each of us have already seen, this thread won’t make the difference like the 349k related threads posted before.

Really sorry that you took your time typing all of this, but solution isn’t in our hand, now is your choice if you want to stay in silence in forums, if you want to bash imc and their white knights, if you prefer instead making scripts to block people or if you keep giving feedback or suggestions with the hope that something will happen.

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In all seriousness I do hope that the devs can organise some form of dev discussion session with the itos community too, just like what they did with ktos. Since iToS is international, just host it online, even in forums is also good enough.

If worry the session getting too chaotic and such, they can just get a few selected individuals for the session and we just pass our views to them.

I am really serious in my previous reply and will be here.

With the heart in hand, do you really think that can/will happen knowing that in almost a year their contribution can be counted with one hand? You have seen ToF this days ( forum worst state ) and nobody stopped anything…

I do it as well, but I lost my faith in this hope.

For now I guess that I won’t comment much more since I’m not helping in anything and your intentions are really good. Will be rounding tho. Hope you the best luck with this topic.

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@STAFF_Max, @STAFF_Yuri what’s your take in this? Will it be possible to have good moderation of forums and active participation of moderators and GMs in forums?

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Until they respond, Mango and Orange said that they are going to be more active and are focusing more on interaction with the community, and Orange said that a crackdown is coming.

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It’s like we have a staff of robots here.

It gets excruciatingly annoying fast when you see thoughtless, fan-servicey replies from them. What’s worst is they get seemingly selective on which topics to touch.

A good community needs good, unbiased mods. Ours don’t have any AFAICT.

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tldr; deliver quality service/product, u’ll get quality customer/feedback

cause n effect ; action n reaction

offtopic

i read from google translate gos interview, mr kim plan to fix game for the next 2year. Appreciate this transparency. May return to itos after 2020.

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Coming Soon™ => Translation: roughly 6 months.

  • they should define what does crackdown means. Is it crackdown for the forum or is it for the game? Eliminate the hue aka Huerification? Suppress negative posts by limiting post count? Beautify the forum by only displaying the positive posts? ToF must be perfect with only positive posts, so ToS must be perfect as well.
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So true, besides needing good unbiased moderators, we need them to be here frequently and not once in a couple of weeks. At the very least make their presence felt.

well

in all fairness, as others have pointed, how many of those hues/negative-sayer still play tos?
weeding em off would seems as the natural things to do.

right, let say imc did removed us.

core issue still the broken game. there bound to be dissatisfied user pop up every now and then.

but imc is known for making unpopular decisions.

who knows.

hue


just to add, acknowledging that wild spread of negativity does affect tos overall popularity.

but to the extend of pointing us as one of the problem, this is a far stretch and a desperate move.

its obvious idiot product would have idiot review. so u gonna fight the idiot reviewer instead of fixing the idiot product?

thats. most. brilliant. idea. ever.

"i know my product is idiot but still that give u no rights to troll."
welcome to internet, bois.

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Oh well this forum is more trolling then anything else.
But without trolling this forum would be dead i guess.

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Well…the thing is ToF account isnt linked to ToS account so there is no way for them to be certain if a forum user is their current customer. If they try to randomly weed out the forum users, I can smell a new shitstorm coming. Any game is bound to be broken as long it is under Kimmy. If only ToS can weed out Kimmy like Gravity did.

Regarding forum negativity, human tends to choose the easiest way to deal with issues. This is exactly IMC style. Players use bots programs to bot? Ban the bots instead of the program. Now the IMC style disease has infected the like minded people on the forum. We shouldnt blame them. Not everyone are deep thinker.

My advise for fellow ToF saviors.

/ #NeverGoFullIMC

That will become much like a one sided dictatorship though, to only hear the good stuff. I hate those forums where every single thing which speaks ill is censored. I believe everything when done in moderation, is good for the community and game in general. Hues do lighten up the mood every now and then and I do enjoy the entertainment they provide. But too much of it makes it become really dull and no longer fresh.

And yes we are all part of the problem. It is true that with a bad game it wun attract many players, but to add on with a community that pretty much is negative just adds more fuel to the already raging fire. On IMC’s side what they can do is to fix the issue of the game. On our side, at the very least is to keep things in moderation. Not too much of everything. :3

Come to think of it, there’s many things which can be done by IMC to actually hope booster the community into a more positive light, it just skipped my mind at point of posting the OP (was sick waiting for my turn at the clinic while typing the opening post).


Here are the additional supplements/suggestion(s) which IMC can do in improving the game just by posting stuff in forums:

Encourage active participation of community members by letting them participate in part of ToS’s design,

Be it a map, item, hidden class’s skill, quests or idea to solve existing problems. By the end of the process, the resulting item or game mechanic can be credited to the community. Like item flavor text “Designed by iToS community” or skill sound effect with “Hiakk~~ from kToS”.

Doing this has the following benefits:

  • This shows that the devs care and are actively engaged with the audience that matters the most, the players.

  • More brains to collectively brainstorm for ideas and solutions

  • Collect feedback where it is important

  • Ideas and thoughts exchanged will let players realise that adding and balancing stuff in game aren’t easy even on the design stage.

  • Players feel as they are part of game building process.

Ask the community questions

Be more active in getting feedback and not waiting for players to feedback in the feedback channel. With the devs just asking “How do you think of the practonium/agny/transcendence issue?” will lead to more constructive feedback and comments than the entire month of waiting passively for the few feedback posts to trickle in.

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@Nekorin

yes, anything is better than nothing.

we literally waiting something to happen…

@gm/@staffs , bring it. Bring anything at all.
we hungry for something to do…

about whether the huematerial fresh or not, welp, we all veteren here ofcourse nothing is fresh anymore.

huehuehue~

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