Since you’re going barb 3 -> dopple, you’ll want dex.
But why? Do you mind elaborating on that a little? Why go Dex over STR?
It’s kinda hard to dismiss the info Varuna gave by just calling him retarded.
I think the best you’re gonna get it peoples opinions.
Also your stat build largely depends on what you want to do in the game; I hear DEX is important in pvp but if you’re just gonna tank mobs then at least a bit of CON is likely essential.
I’d take a look at this post which talks a lot about stat builds near the bottom.
It’s pretty insightful about each builds advantages/disadvantages. Also read their section on "The ‘tank’ dilemma if you’re going tank. Just do what you can as far as researching and you’ll probably end up with a decent build if not the most optimal. Most importantly, play classes you want to play. Stats can be reset but ranks cannot.
EDIT: Forgive me, I mistook the TP item as a stat reset but it is actually skill reset. Currently, stats cannot be reset. My mistake
Because he has no good reason other than to believe the build he’s doing is the right build. Otherwise if he admits I’m right, his build fails.
It’s stupid to pump heavy into dex as a doppel lol.
A hoplite can just use finestra and have as much dex as you do, as you wasted all your points into dex only to be outclassed by a spear user. Not to mention all your crit rate can be obtained via equips.
At least str has bonuses for every rank you gain. Dex does not. But idc what ppl want to do with their class.
Dex does more damage than Strength in almost every scenario, but their damage difference isn’t massive. Which means your kill speed will be exactly the same. I’m talking a 2-3% difference.
The reason why strength is worse for b3 --> d2 is that you’re sacrificing EHP from physical attacks (also dodging knockbacks/downs) to do the same damage.
Also, it is far easier to gain crit damage and physical damage right now than it is to gain crit rating.
Dex/Con for a b3–>d2 is just a better all around build compared to strength.
So, do you recommend going pure dex with enough CON to get a reasonable amount of life, or to also put some of my points into STR as well?
I have no idea where you’re getting your information from tbh. If you just do some math it all points to STR being far better. Evasion doesn’t even matter lol. You don’t evade all that much in the first place.
Lv.280
Lolopanther Two-handed sword 350~651
DEX:CON (265:100)
HP 24k (26k)
P.ATK 292 (642~943)
CRIT.ATK 12
CRIT.RATE 265
STR:CON (427:100)
HP 24k (26k)
P.ATK 707 (1057~1358)
CRIT.ATK 427
CRIT.RATE 6
Clearly, you can see here even with 265 DEX which is approximately 39% Crit factoring no crit Resistance. Even if you had 100% Crit rate, you still would be doing around the same damage as someone who invested pure STR.
Here’s the catch though, you’re basically giving yourself a 39% chance to deal the same damage as someone who went pure STR. STR isn’t chance, it’s a consistent 1057~1358 damage while you’re having a 39% chance to deal 963~1414. So with 100% crit rate you would still be doing 1414 maximum. Without critting, you’re dealing 50% less damage than a pure STR.
Let’s add Frenzy, Warcry and Deeds of Valor into the mix.
(1358 + 400 + 330) * 2 = 4,176 Max P.ATK
vs
(943 + 400 + 330) * 2 = 3,346 Max P.ATK * 1.5 (5,019)
The only way you would be dealing more damage is if you completely buffed yourself with 20 stacks of Frenzy, max Warcry and Deeds of Valor and had 100% crit rate. Remember tho, you’re sitting at a 39% chance to crit. Lv280 Bosses have around 120 CRIT Resistance which would knock your crit chance down to about 22%. DEX builds are heavily dependent on the mobs crit resistance. The more crit resist they have, the worse you will do. This does not apply to STR builds.
What happens if the pure STR build decides to socket 2 Crit Gems with added Sissel Bracelets? That’s +258 Crit Rate, basically 39% crit rate. So even with pure STR one can obtain 39% crit rate worth of gear, basically having exactly 258 points worth of DEX.
Boosting their P.ATK from 4,176 to 6,264. So even if you had 100% CRIT rate, you would not deal more damage than a pure STR build. The pure STR build has a potential to hit up to 6,264 P.ATK vs your 5,019 P.ATK. Add in +400 CRIT.ATK and it’ll boost their damage even more.
Sissel Bracelet and Green Gems would not benefit your damage anymore on a pure DEX build. The next best bracelet for a pure DEX build is probably Gladiator bands that give you +16 STR / 94 CRIT.ATK. Even if you had x2 Gladiator bands that would be +32 STR / 188 CRIT.ATK. Sissel Bracelets give you 37 CRIT.RATE each which is worth 37 DEX points. x2 Sissel Bracelets = 74 crit rate / DEX.
Before you say anything like “well, you need to heavily invest into that kinda gear to even deal that much damage” well, that’s the point of this. DEX builds rely completely on their weapon to deal damage and unless you have a Lolopanther 2H sword, your damage is gonna be even far worse.
That’s why I said DEX is not good for Barbarian builds. Barbarians don’t have very many skills in general and they are all very high CD attacks with low overheats. Most your your damage will be coming from basic attacking, not skill damage. STR completely prevails in basic attacking. DEX is far better on archers because of their 0 CD skills.
Well, that’s how I look at it. IDC if you go read my information or not but it’s up to you.
a little off topic since this is a doppel build post, but for Fencers could the same be said that str>dex or does Dex pull ahead due to evasion and the 0 CD skills Fencer has?
Most Fencer builders I’ve seen say go high dex (2:1 or 3:1) but I’ve never seen much debate between going high str for them or not
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my swordsman brother, i’m always disagree for those who say swordsman should be tank. We are playing a lvl 600 game and now the cap was just 280. And there will be more patches coming, so just play what you want to play.
I am a sw>highlander> barb x 3 > dop (Soon ) 140 Str and around 170 Dex and it totally work very well. im having 180 crit rate atm, just make sure you have around 200~250 crit rate and get the rest into str. Oh yea i have only 20 con ( stats from gear ) and i have 12k hp right now. Live on bro
And forget to mention i DODGE most of the attack, just get some mdef and u will be fine. PS* lv10 potion is good too
You’re not including skill damage… Just base stats.
Strength is better than dex in this case when just calculating base stats. But that’s not how the game works.
Once you factor in skill damage, they even out, with some cases of strength being more and some cases of dex being more. But it’s never this massive gap where strength just crushes dex by 25%+. It’s not even by 5%.
So it’s not going to matter. You’ll never be able to cross a kill threshold where you get to use less skills.
So if you’re not crossing this threshold and the damage is within 5% of one another, then there’s no reason to reduce your EHP for strength.
Where’s your proof though. I provided statistics and you provided nothing but your opinion and this is why the swordsman forums is full of piss poor misinformation.
As I stated, Barb/Doppel builds have high CD and little overheats. Good luck relying completely on your skill damage when Cyclone is a whole 55 second cool down (yes tosbase has this info wrong) and your next best skills are Zornhau, Zucken and Redel which all have no over heats and completely scale off your P.ATK because they have low skill modifiers.
So yes, it’s true what you’re saying is that DEX benefits from skill damage more, but unless you’re a Musketeer with headshot dealing over 6k + 400% of your P.ATK every 20 seconds… I don’t think you have a very good argument.
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My own damage calc in excel? I don’t need to point out the errors in your math. There’s already a good post by a guy who’s corrected himself multiple times now in the “Strength vs Dex” Debate.
The quick and dirty is that Strength is better than Dex when dealing less than 2000 damage. Once you get 2k, they even out. The higher your base damage goes, the more dex beats strength.
All barb/dopple skills with attributes up to 50% do 2k base, outside of zucken/redel.
For example my cyclone does 4k more damage as pure dex than strength (about 8% more). But in the end that 4k won’t save me from having to use another skill or another cyclone. And this is a game of bursting mobs within skill usage.
Judging from you almost 50/50 STR/DES split, should I conclude that going pure DEX is a bad idea?
why advise him on something thats going to change in the next few patches? yes were the lowest tier dps class, but once we get our broken buffs… that plan is just gna fck u up later on…
Newb here planning to go sm>pelt>bar3>dop2 , is accuracy not required for pve? Is there any other sources of accuracy other than gloves?
Point out the errors. I’ve been waiting for you to actually post useful helpful data instead of just bashing and denying all my facts and stats I’ve posted.
And btw that spreadsheet you’re referring to was posted by my guildmate.
Hello, creator of that spreadsheet here.
I will tell you this.
DEX will never benefit you for damage as a Swordsman even if you have Hoplite 3.
Sure Evasion is nice and all, but there’s no point in getting it unless you can get a lot of it, and I mean upwards 700~1k evasion. Most bosses have roughly 20%~30% accuracy, with the highest one having 50%.
Critical attacks will never benefit you unless you hit past 3.5k total attack (And I mean, your weapon + base attack + skill damage). (My previous spreadsheet said it was 5k)
ALL but two Swordsman skills have less damage than 3k, and those two skills belong to the rank 7 classes with unbelievably long cooldowns.
@daays
DEX will never outdamage STR, period. Also, I’ve never corrected myself; I’ve only further proved my point with each newer spreadsheet along with them getting more accurate.
You need roughly 3.5k total damage for DEX to start being better. You can’t be ~5% near it, you have to be ABOVE it. Swordsman don’t have that kind of burst.
Also the average does not show the range of your damage. The thing is, an “average hit” for a full STR build hardly accounts the burst the every so often crit does while a full DEX build relies on a decent amount of crit attacks to barely come even with a full STR’s non-crit hits.
Cyclone benefits more from STR. Why you ask? Skill damage is like around 1.3k maxed out atm. Adding into what Varuna said, you’ll barely hit 2.5k after defense PER HIT.
But total damage of the skill is way over 3.5k! That doesn’t matter because you need EACH HIT to hit past that number.
So, yes high DEX can work, but it will forever be the sub-optimal build.
it doesn’t even matter if the level cap is 600 or 100. The critical rate formula loses effectiveness the HIGHER level you are, which means you need even more of it to get the same amount.
STR on the other hand will always increase in value due to rank bonus.
Not even T1 modifiers (the % bonus on skills) will change this. And no, skill attribute enhancement doesn’t change this either.
In fact, if you want to account for these, then you have to pass even higher numbers. (I.e a 100% attribute means you need to hit 7k per hit)
You can’t say that’s your damage calculator if someone else made it. Unless you really did make your own then my bad. I highly doubt though.
In the real world, you need to prove what you are saying, or no one will care or bother listening to what you say.
@spamb0x
Any form of DEX from stat points is just bad on Swordsman; don’t do it. Any other source of DEX (aka. bonus stats) are welcomed but not neccessary.
The spreadsheet is a little intimidating I know. Essentially, this is what you wanted to know from it. Swordsman benefit from STR until roughly 3500 total attack (weapon + base stat + skill). There are only two skills that can past that number and they both have extremely high cooldowns.
So, Swordsman benefit from STR more than DEX regardless.
You need about 5k total attack for a full DEX build to be better.
But, with your build, STR is better. Not only for the reasons mentioned above, but Deeds of Valor benefits from higher base attack (which STR increases). Also DoV makes it so that you need to hit even higher than 3.5k for DEX to be better. Another thing is that DoV requires getting hit. A dodge doesn’t count towards that.
@theweirdfool
You do not need to worry about accuracy in pve because your level and a glove near your level will give you all the accuracy you need in pve.
Pvp is a different story but full con is better there anyways because magic can’t miss.
@kylusen92
You actually only need about 20 total DEX (after accounting gear) as a fencer for max evasion. (You need at least 700 evasion. 300 can come from gear easily, your level gives you 280, and your buffs will do the rest)
-You can go high dex, but you really don’t need to.
-Your can get about 300 evasion from gear (which is fairly easy late/end game) + use your evasion skills.
-You can only get a good amount of evasion through your skills.
Yeah you can have a decent evasion with high dex or full dex but you lose so much damage for it. Sure evasion from DEX will help for leveling, but you shouldn’t have that much trouble when you are leveling anyways.
So it’s actually preference if you want to go high DEX for that extra evasion. I personally wouldn’t do it.
Thanks for the response, I’m about level 130 at this point, been going 2:1 Dex:Str while leveling so guess i’ll stick with it until a stat reset potion is released (hopefully) and switch to a more Str oriented build. Might make another Fencer at one point since there are other paths i do want to try taking with them so your advice will help with those at least.
If you plan to go barb3-dop2 (that is the best barb build according to me atm) you have to be Dps/tank…considering dead of valor you have to gettkng hit for stack the buff…soo you need to not evade and die with few hits…soo the best way is to have hogh str and some cos for be a tanki too…the best build is
Sw-peltc1-barc3-dopplec2
And the best stats are
3:1 (STR:CON)
This is the best and only build if you would have nice damage and be a tank…and if you considering dead of valor this is the best idea 
Deus Ex Machina. 
Thank you for your advices!
I am a STR based swordsman since ever and I have read all your spreadsheets.
I am happy to see you there because, with somes guys giving wrong info on thoses forums…
Here for example:
… I missunderstood your last spreedsheet and was thinking about using reset stat potion to go for a DEX build… HOPEFULLY I DIDN’T! 