The thread heading says “Top DPS 2hander Doppel Swordsman Build”
Peltasta does not increase your damage whatsoever. In fact, by taking it, you’re lowering your damage potential. I’m not saying Peltasta isn’t good, it is, but it pairs very poorly with Doppel. You don’t want the threat, doppel abilities make you squishy as is. Consider going Hoplite/Dragoon, Cata/Dragoon, or Fencer if you want to work Peltasta into your build early on.
Note: Also, by taking Peltasta, you’re practically sacrificing an entire circle to the idea that “I need this point to get into leveling grinding groups”. You’ve practically already admitted defeat as a dps Swordsman. Again, I’m not saying Peltasta isn’t good, but are you really about to sacrifice an early class level in hopes that it will increase the chance that people will want you in their party while you’re leveling? What about when you hit level 280? You no longer need this point. You’ve lost damage by taking it. And you’re not a real tank so it won’t be useful in any min/max endgame situation.
Highlander is a dps increase for the shock application of Crown to boost the damage of Zucken, not for the crit.
Whether or not Warcry is worth leveling past 3 for the attribute is up for debate, as the scaling is horrendous. However, in situations where you are always or near always hitting 8 mobs with it, yeah, it likely outscales Cleave or other alternative abilities. Revised build is as follows:
Yeah, Double Pay Earn is good, I’d likely recommend a point or two in it in general, but again, the headline of your post clearly states “Top DPS” build. Double Pay Earn does not increase your DPS.
Thrust is amazing. You will still be using it at level 280.
Worth noting, I’m admittedly kind of playing devil’s advocate. I see the viability of taking Peltasta early. In fact the health boost you get from it can likely outweigh the slight dps loss of dropping Highlander even in solo situations, and it’s a sad known fact that a lot of people will not invite non-Pelts to groups.
That being said, I’m almost entirely arguing with the fact that you’ve listed this as the “top theoretical dps” which simply is not true with Peltasta in the build.
Hey friend. Yes our build are very similar. A couple of points here and there put into diff skills for mainly personal preference. I like your build very much!
If you don’t want to click the link the guy gives evidence that highlander is almost pointless for 2hander.
Aditionally, one of the most heavily debated thread on swordsman thread (its on the front page) is some dude regretting not taking pelt and he’s level 240 not getting invited into parties.
People don’t see the viability and utility of pelt because A) you can swash buckle 15 mobs THEN cast cyclone and easy exp farm
B) offtank
You can say that highlander is better pick but in the end, pelt is always wanted more than highlander. You don’t see people asking for highlanders in shout. Pelt will provide you with better overall utility and usefulness in the long run.
Yea so that guy’s chart was way off. And I mean way off.
They even out around 2-3k damage (all your skills do more than 2k damage). But even then, even if strength was higher, it would have to completely destroy dex in terms of damage. Something like 20%-25% more damage.
Right now, it doesn’t. In fact, not only does dex beat str in terms of damage output, but in the cases str does beat dex, it’s only by less than 5%.
You’re sacrificing so much EHP from physical damage to either do less damage, or 2% more damage. And yes, you can dodge archer mobs. Yes you can dodge spiral arrow. Yes you can dodge their crit shot and multi shot. The only unavoidable attacks are magic.
You shouldn’t go strength as a dopple. You should aim for an HP pool you feel comfortable with and can absorb 10 hits to get DoV maxed out. I’d say 30k base. Then put the rest into Dex.
Strength is for Hoplite/Dragoons that have +150 crit rate.
Also, and I hope they fix this, DoV doesn’t increase increase attack. It increases your attack by the minimum damage only, which severely hinders 2h weapons (as you’re only getting about 60% of the value on max damage).
Please do not discredit such work if you don’t have solid arguments.
I just want to specify, we are talking about “base” damages (your p.atk [str + weapon] plus the skill damages). Btw minimum damages before graphs shows interest spending points in DEX is 3k5, not 2k.
That will be hard if you avoid every attacks. ^^
Add to it, It will not gives you far less bonus than if you had max your STR instead of DEX.
[quote=“daays, post:43, topic:263486”]
I’d say 30k base.[/quote]
30k base HP. This mean spending 130pts in CON (for a total of 170). Isn’t it a bit too much?
That means you will only have (roughly) 180pts in DEX (for a total of ~230 DEX and 12 STR).
Even then he’s still changing and modifying it, fixing errors, etc.
But the damage formula is already out there. You can make your own as it’s not that complex.
All your skills do more than 2k. Cleave when stunned, Seism, Cyclone, Zucken, Redel.
You’ll start realizing eventually that this isn’t a game of str vs dex. It’s a game of damage vs survivability. How much do you wanna give up? My dex/con build (234/167) does at most 3% less damage than a str/dex/con build and more damage than a str/con build. But I have at least double EHP.
The whole argument of “DONT GO DEX YOU WILL DODGE TOO MUCH” is null. There are unavoidable attacks. Lots of mobs later start doing magic damage, even though it looks like a physical attack. Let alone, you’re never pulling 1 mob at a time and killing it. You’re pulling in 10 with swashbuckling and AoEing it down. With 50% evasion, you just got 5 stacks in 1 swing. You want to get hit 10 times and then never again.
I’ll check about it, I confess I didn’t check reddit changes since a while. ^^’
They are all multi-hits and, if I m right, you have to take every single hit appart from each other.
I know about it, but i prefer STR:CON than DEX:CON ^^
I was just saying 30k base HP looks a bit too much for me.
I m counting this much but with buffs & items.
Now i ll check the changes made to the sheet. Thanks for pointing it to me.
Swordsmen will never compete with Archers/Wizards in terms of damage output simply because of the armor system, and how Archers/Wizards aren’t affected by it.
2/4 armor types cut swordsman DPS in half. Wizards always do 150% damage. Archers do 10%-15% less, but get 50%-75% armor pen, which overall increases their damage back to 100%. And that’s not including ghost mobs or flying mobs.
You’ll need a maxed out DoV and a slashing/piercing debuff up 24/7 just to keep up in terms of damage.
In terms of actual DPS vs DEF, the DEF that mobs and bosses have is irrelevant really…
Because no boss has more then about… 300 DEF i think?..
even as a swordie in the end game when you shoul be hitting 10-15k a simple -300 total dmg is not something your going to notice.
This is why Highlander’s Skull Swing is not a highly sought after skill because it dose not change much at any point of the game.
A smart swordie rolls to pick up a consistent source of all dmg types really.
And worst comes to worst you just go pierce dmg…
its reduced on cloth…
Cloth armor enemies have like NOTHING for HP so -50% is meh when they still don’t have enough HP to survive a few attacks.
A smart person keeps enough DEX to reliably crit and NOT miss attacks while also stacking STR.
remember your crit dmg is still effected by your STR so unless your rocking a 800+ base dmg weapon you still need to invest into STR.
What everyone was trying to say when thy responded to this is, the attribute only gives you +30
The other 300 you gain is biased on how much of each target’s DEF was lost.
Example:
If you use it at lvl 10 on 10 targets w/o the atribute you gain +300
If you uses it at lvl 1 on 10 specified targets you gain +100
And for my overall thoughts on the OP’s build.
I would only recommend this on a Hoplite really…
because DEX far outclasses STR .-.
And in a build with a buff that gives high crit you don’t need many points in DEX other then for the accuracy.
Either way Bash is the better skill, as it has more uses and stays relevant source of CC for a long time.
Unless your going Highlander in which case ied say taking 1 point in Thrust to make use of cross guard is very smart and works very well even at lvl 150.
No sir… max this skill, the dmg is very handy in the early levels.
Later on both Concentrate and Gung Ho fall off and become irrelevant anyway.
Its best uses for barb is during Pouncing IMO or when taunting enemies.
It also does NOT stop CC, it only stops you from getting knocked down, it is useless against things like: sleep and freeze.
1/5 Guadian, and put the other 4 in Rim Blow, as there is no benefit to getting Guardian any higher then lvl 1 for its attribute.
This way you get the evasion attribute AND 2 good sources of Strike dmg.
Go 5/5 in Pouncing if you opt out of Giant Swing.
Or you could opt out of both for more DMG in cleave.
But this Barb skill allocation is pretty standard, but I would have nabbed Highlander instead if your going doppel with high STR due to cross guard.
Here is where things get interesting!
In my opinion this skill really only benefits a spear user that went Hoplite for Finestra, because this is the only class in the swordie tree who can afford to NOT build dex.
As well as having a good auto attack already thanks to Finestra and if you picked up Corsair 2 before Doppel at r7 You have DWA which DOES get the atk speed buff from DoV AND the bonuses from Finestra.
Not to mention that in most cases with a lvl 9-10 DoV you don’t really want to take 9-10 attacks in general so once you get your stacks you dont really want to get hit any more.
And the advantage of going Hoplite is the fact that you can you can swap dagger and shield w/o losing Finestra because once you get your 9-10 stacks you DONT want to take any more dmg and Finestra is giving you a nice block rate buff for mobbing pair that up with Aias for the x2 Block rate and Hoplite is the 2nd best tank in the game (2nd Only to Fencer but Hoplite gets more dmg then Fencer)
Closing thoughts
The Build and stat allocation you are going for has no synergy with each other.
The only way to justify going with a high STR build and NOT taking Hoplite is to nab Highlander for Cross guard so you have a way to NOT take physical dmg…
So with out it you are spending TONS of silver and TP on this build becuase you have NO evasion.
even going leather armor is not enough to save you here, but you already stated that you were going leather…
To each their own, but i would seriously reconsider this build.
You’re telling me you are going to swap to shield during a boss fight and cast rim blow? At level 225+ I don’t think I even use umbo blow let alone will use rim blow. The points in these skill are pointless, I only chose umbo blow because of the stun + knockdown will be effective form of CC. The damage is horrible and gaurdian is more useful at 5 because you don’t want to continously recast it. Increase duration is better.
Plus I already discussed and talked about this higher up in the thread with at least one other individual. Please refer to that for more reasons why rim blow is waste of skillpoints.
Either way Bash is the better skill, as it has more uses and stays relevant source of CC for a long time.
Unless your going Highlander in which case ied say taking 1 point in Thrust to make use of cross guard is very smart and works very well even at lvl 150.
I agree here, but look up more in the thread for the discussion on why thrust is put 1 point into. Bash at 3 is solid for knockdown.
The Build and stat allocation you are going for has no synergy with each other.
The only way to justify going with a high STR build and NOT taking Hoplite is to nab Highlander for Cross guard so you have a way to NOT take physical dmg…
So with out it you are spending TONS of silver and TP on this build becuase you have NO evasion.
even going leather armor is not enough to save you here, but you already stated that you were going leather…
First, the build is NOT leather but plate. Second, this is a 2hander doppel c2 sword build. Not hoplite. If you want a hoplite build please go pelt-hop3-doppel-goon for the FOTM goodness.
i get the benefits of why you’d max warcry and why you’d be a drunk to not max it.