Tree of Savior Forum

Feedback about the game : More than disapointing

Hello there.

Currently I have a level 106 thaumaturge and level 60 swordman and since it’s a beta I think I should give my feedback.

The main dev from RO is managing this game so I feel like
he should know what made RO successful and that he could do better than a game released more than 15 years ago.

And sadly this game is beyond disapointing. So many things are wrong. I think they are still fixable yet it’s almost one year of beta and the only fix I could notice is XP X3. IMC either works at snail pace or just don’t understand their incoming doom. This game is inferior to RO by an order of magnitude.

First of all the linearity of this game. Seriously? If it were not for XP x3 it would be just impossible to level up by killing monsters. Well it is but would you grind 3 hours to level up ( 9 hours with normal XP) rather than doing 5 quests taking you 20 mins asking you to pick up 3 items on the ground? This game is not an MMORPG. It’s a railroad game asking you to do quest after another. And that’s around level 80 it gets worse and worse after.

Well If quests would be interesting why not? But no. Killing x monsters, picking x items in the area is incredibly boring. Not even RPG from the NES era managed to be this dull. Boss tries to hold a bit of our interest. But boss are supposed to be rare, difficult, memorable and original. Sorry after the 100th boss in 100 level it’s getting a bit too much. They nearly all have the same attack pattern, are not memorable, come out of nowhere and are not even that hard. You can almost feel IMC designers are doing burn out creating them because. they start recycling boss at lv 80.

Ok I can cope with the boring quest if I could explore the world. Oh wait this is not possible my dear.
Only 3 maps are available at your level every time. Obviously the map in your level range you re supposed to be in, the previous map that you already grinded/quested to death and the next map you re gonna visit anyway. The game is like that from level 1 to 100. Occasionally a dungeon opens up preventing you to fall asleep. But there are only 2 dungeon from level 1 to 100 and those aren’t even true dungeon but instanced railroad. Maybe I missed some but I could only find 2 real dungeons from level 1 to 100 ( constructor chapel and the graveyard).

And should you wish to explore maps outside of your range IMC even punish you for that. If you explore low level area for mobbing low level crap you get punished by xp penality. If you explore high level area you get punished by damage penality. Monsters one shot you for no reason and you re gonna hit them for 1 damage anyway. Come back several levels later and suddenly monster do next to no damage to you even tough you invested 0 point in defense and you re blasting them with few skills even tough you didn’t increase your attack. IMC why do you punish people for exploring your game?

And If by miracle you manage to kill a high level monsters : lol it’s not even worth it. A level 40 monsters will give you around 250-300 xp. And a level 100 monster 400-450 xp. Hardly worth the trouble. IMC seems to have trouble balancing xp tables and monsters. Indeed it’s easy and lazy to base your xp tables around quests. But please make an effort and introduce grind and killing monsters into your formula. Diversity is always good.

Diversity totally absent from the game. Monsters in every maps are dull and bland. Since you cannot explore maps you re always stuck with the same group of monsters. Monsters that every class (except full support cleric) can kill in 1 or 2 skills and that all give the same XP. Where are the occasionally dangerous mobs that reward you with more xp? Where are the mobs that some classes must avoid at all cost? Where are the mobs that some classes have to hunt because they can hit their weakness?

Diversity that could be seen in maps itself. Come on it’s not 1990 anymore. You can make maps more interactive. Various device to trigger to mess up with the environment, waking up monsters, unlocking door or path? Possibilities are limitless and I even think you can do it. Some are already implemented but I could only see that through moving plateform and occasional device triggered from quests. But for some reasons IMC are rather shy with that.

Also the game is overally to easy . I could face tank everything with my wizard (what?). I won’t even mention swordmen, They do the most DPS and cannot die. I didn’t test archer but from what I have heard they have a trouble doing damage but they still won’t die anyway. Cleric are unkillable but do no damage. The only way IMC can kill you is throwing an overtuned boss at you.

Maps monsters do no damage. You do too much damage to them. Nobody needs to abuse monster weakness because it either take 1 or 2 skill to kill anything around your level. And SP is the only thing preventing you to go into rampage.

That also means that partying is absolutely useless. Who needs a cleric when pots are alreay enough to stay alive. Who needs clerics to buff you when everything melt down as you walk. Poor cleric, their only meaning in their life is ask for help on bosses because they lack DPS and helping in instanced dungeon to kill overtuned monsters.

The game is too easy because the stats system is a complete disaster. and that’s my biggest concern. Build are basically useless. You could put whatever stats you want it doesn’t even matter.
STR and INT are basically useless stats. They add so little damage that people start to realize really soon that +2 damage is useless when you do 500 damage+. The damage only scales from skill level and not your own stats. Now we are seeing funny builds. Archer putting everything in SPR to spam skills. Swordmen putting everything in DEX because multiplying your damage with crit is far better than gaining 1 damage. And wizard rather put CON to facetank even more than INT. Essentially people are playing with 3 stats.

And don’t think your equipment even matters. The difference between a character holding the rarest items in his level range and the one who bought his from the item shop is negligible. Ok when people are level 10 and do 10 damage, a 50 dps increase is huge. But when you re level 100 and hit for 1k that 50 damage is just a joke. The level between each equipments is far too wide too. 15 40 75 120 is rather big. Why such a big range? Why not introduce items along the way? It requires balance but you clearly show you have no interest in it.

The saving grace maybe comes from the market/item system. The way you use gold to raise attribute is interesting. The market is funny. And the recipe system is a good way to make people farm for items in various areas. But all of that means nothing since equipments are useless. Why would people take any effort forging +10 items just to increase their damage by 5%. Why would people hunt the rarest armor when they just cannot die anyway. Why would people hunt specific items to get elemental properties when everything dies in 2 click already. Why would people even bother to use the market when they must switch equipments every 50 level. It may be my personal opinion but the amount of equipments with specific properties is rather lacking. People could also trade for materials but quests items are bound and easy to get anyway, Again equipments are useless so people don’t bother too much with recipes. The item/gold system is good but since equipments are useless it doesnt even matter

Now It’s really personal but the world and story of TOS is really poor and lacking. Only 1 town from the beginning and the second town at lv 100 (lol). From what I have heard TOS takes place in an apocalyptic world. Yet I couldn’t feel it. The story being slow and being just point A from point B. Lack of meaningful characters in the story. Bored of naked godess that spit 2 lines. Dull map design. 30 forest maps. Oh wait there is 5 desert map. Music not being engaging enough. Sound nice sometimes but forgettable and lack emotion that RO 1 music managed to bring to the map. It’s such a waste because you can feel IMC put a lot of effort into the graphics and universe.

And last but not least, because of all those points above, the replay value of TOS is terrific. If you remake a character you will have to go through all those boring quests you did already. You have to go through the same pattern of maps that are boring. You will breeze through a game that isn’t even difficult
Comparing to RO, where are the various town where different people would start their journey? In RO starting a new character at the opposite side of the world made the creation of a new character a new game in itself. Where is the map diversity that made monsters and drop uniques. Where is the player interaction where people had to trade for items only dopped at the other side of the world? Where is the central town where everyone had to gather?

Sure according to some oracle the game may become good and more interesting at higher level ! What level? 150? 200? 500? Sorry in my opinion the journey through an MMORPG must be as fun as the goal but the lack of interaction needed between players and the game lacking in every field is a killer.

I won’t be all negative.The battle system is fun, even more if the game would be more challenging. The class system is odd but diverse and allow some strange builds.

But IMC clearly lack vision. Nowadays games are really bad especially in the mmorpg field so IMC plays it safe and try to be as generic as possible , happy being over average. But better that bad doesn t make good. All those points above can be fixed. Better stats system. Open map. More balanced xp system and gameplay. Smarter map layout and more creativity? Where is this game going. Being an “ok” game and make money? Or being a reference and a game we will remember and play in 15 years?

But facts tells the truth. By opening the adventurer book I can see that not even half people have over 2500 points. Which is around level 30. So people stopped playing after 1 or 2 days ( few hours for a swordman). If this game didn’t had the “RO” aura I can safely says it wouldn’t be as famous.

127 Likes

+1!!! I agree.

/20characters

First of all, thank you for valued suggestions regarding on whole game contents. Refer to your idea, we will try our best to improve TOS.

Thanks.

45 Likes

thank you for your time reading my feedback. I know it may not be pleasant and the tone is a bit harsh but sometimes you need to shake things a little.

I do think this game can be good but it requires a bit of work

9 Likes

Very very nice feedback. I have the same opinion in any cases.
Especially I hadn’t an idea of this stat/equipment issues! But the first things you mentioned aren’t that hard to fix I think.
The second problem which seems harder to fix, is the linearity of the storyline and the maps. This would cost some more work. But it makes hope that so many people give such good feedback! Thanks for this and I hope IMC will come along and surprise us. They should be a bit more experimental and stop orientating on the horrible bad mmorpgs which exists…

4 Likes

I tottaly agree if your point of view

Being very sincere. I don’t give a damn about most complaints you listed. Other than the balance ones which I feel you do have a point that actually matters. Why? Because like almost everyone who played MMOs I don’t give a single damn about the path until you reach the cap level and start working towards specific gear, I do believe these should be boring, grindy and feel like a chore because this separates the people who are actually engaged with the game from people who just come to screw around. Anyone who played WoE seriously on official RO servers should know what I’m talking about.

The journey doesn’t matter, all that matters is reaching a level where you can be competitive and that’s why people keep playing. Be it War of Emperium, being the first in the world to complete a certain Raid in WoW, being a billionaire in EVE or Archeage and so on… the content in the middle is just a wall you have to surpass to prove yourself worth of trying the competitive aspect of the game.

But I am too concerned with the stats system, I’ll give it time before being adamant about what’s going on. When RO came out we had builds like Int+Agi Wizards, because Dodge didn’t have a 95% ratio cap, so you could make Wizards dodge forever by investing on Agi, but the main point here is that this was changed and the same can happen to Tree of Savior.

Another thing is optimal PvP builds sucking at PvE leveling and opposite being true, very few classes had builds that were useful in both scenarios,. This is very hard to test at the moment because the point where people start actually experimenting and confirming things in PvP is when they get close to the cap level and start looking for gear and other people around the same level to experiment and so on.

So far we have a game still on Beta, with less than one hundred people at the cap level sitting around still figuring out things and people while people who haven’t even reached the fifth class circle are crying and moaning in the forums, specially when saying the monsters are too weak when all players past certain level are complaining that the monsters have a huge ass HP pool and will insta bop you if you press a wrong key, these mobs also love to spam annoying ass stats to ruin your day.

And lastly. The community is only as strong as they want it to be. The community only start to form when people have been around long enough and have attachment to their characters.

7 Likes

Agree with everything there except the monster difficulty, starting the main chamber level 130 some cast ice spike, throw damage arrows at you or have very high HP and damage.
However it boils down to monster diversity, monsters are boring, there are few who differentiates from others such as the ones who hides, cast magic, have one stat absurdly high/low (may it be movement, HP, ATK, DEF, range…), buff/debuffs…

And then there are field boss who are just HP bags, far less threatening than any MvP in RO they are just regular bosses who OS with millions HPs, easy to dodge/kite whatsoever…

Community will only start to form when there are enough peoples playing.

If most players couldn’t bother to stay after lv 30, this game is done for. No, we don’t need people to force themselves to be dedicated, we want the game to be sufficient to let player devote to the game.

9 Likes

The game lasts as long as there are a few whales keeping it. It’s nice to have many players who are willing to spend a few bucks on it, but the main income comes from a small dedicated base that won’t just simply quit after investing so much.

You will have more dedicated base if more people stays.

6 Likes

The problems of this game’s balance are they put too many things, but use too little.

For simple exam, they aim the game to 400 lvl cap and more. But they use the same balance and fomula stat from RO which is lvl 100/200 cap.

It’s might be RO, but it’s not RO. RO aim for less but go more, this game aim for more, but go less.
RO have 2 job tree for each class, but each job have an unique.
This game have tons of classes, and i even don’t bother to count cause they too unmemorable.
The only class that got my interested is Consair, Elementalic, Monk, Rouge. The other just for fill the rank.

There are hundreds, may be thousand of class build, but actualy so few will work, due to the random skill system, and fixed dmg base for skill. Absulutely, Swordman C3 for rank 4 is a worst choise if you didn’t choise it at rank 3. You froced to choise the class at the same rank. And at rank 5, all the skill except buff of the lower rank classes became useless cause of the low base dmg with nothing can improve.

While we’re talking about balance. There is also the concern that fixing a class like the Barbarian is easy, just tweak some numbers to make it more in line with the rest of the game and it’s solved. But some classes have their basic mechanics broken, the Linker will be always OP and useful unless it’s nerfed to the ground, Bokor and Sorcerer need an entire rework of the AI or how the class works, I don’t even know what to say about the Quarrel Shooter because it seems like it can be useful in the PvP the way it is.

I’m with the OP. I’ve been in the beta for a few days, and I think I can pass judgement on it. This game is gourgeous looking, but looks can deceive. I really love the combat system and the class system. Makes the game fast paced, while adding a whole new deversity to it. Hardly we will see 2 guys in the same party, or even on a guild later on with the same class build. This is a really positive point.

But, Stats system and linear gameplay will problably kill the game later on. Like fellow players once said, please, don’t make this a generic MMORPG. Linear quests are boring and kill the game, since you can basically go solo on the overworld map doing the quests and quickly climb up the the level rank with it, following said route the game obliges you to take. In RO, you could grind in whenever you felt like. Swordsman? I can go kill wolves, go to the desert, the world was mine to go where I pleased. Mage/Archer? I could go to Floras, Geographers… There was a little number of quests, which felt good to make, because they were so rare, and gave such nice bonuses, like acessing an area we could no go before, or gaining an item that only that quest would reward you with.

1 city till lvl 100? Really? In RO every city was unique, selling specific items, letting you go to another map that can only be reached by said route, class change only happened in these specified cities. Why must we be confined to a single state city for most part of the game? We want a MMORPG, not a story-driven one. For the last we have a lot of single player games! Story for a MMO is not bad, don’t take me wrong, but there is more to it! Places to explore, monsters to kill, be it mobbing a lot of weaker ones, or making a party to reach a hard place in search for a better XP and items, or simple curiosity! We want freedom, not to just drag our bodies to place A to place B because the worth killing mobs are there, or because the quest send us to.

Any ways. The game is still in Beta, I have really high hopes for this project, because everything is so beautifully done, the art work, the monsters, soundtrack, classes and combat Devs just need to hit the nail on a few details, that ain’t hard to achieve since this is yet not the final product.

Sorry for bad english, not my native language.

16 Likes

I tottaly agree if your point of view. +

1 Like

I wish these points were numbered for ease of response.

Exp: Agree

Linearity: Indifferent

Bosses: Disagree. While there are some recycled bossed and not all of them are hard, there were a few that legitimately challenged me and I’m a pretty good mechanical gamer. Certain bosses are designed to be challenging to certain classes/builds and I think Denoptic and Ravinpede and a few others were actually pretty good on forcing you to be mobile and cautious.

If anything, I’d ask for bosses to have more different attacks, less invincibility frames, lose the ability to run at low health (I’ve had a boss heal to full because it ran away from ME) and not have restrict-attack traps. Traps are okay, restrict attack traps are overall bad and punish you for not having ranged attacks.

Quests: Disagree. Standard quests, no complaints.

Maps: Agree

Exploring higher area levels: Disagree. Have you played Maplestory or 2D platformer MMOs? If you go into an area with mobs a lot higher level than you, you instantly get rekt and without any warning. I don’t think that possibility makes things any more fun for me. For a more recent example, playing Fallout: NV and walking through a valley and getting attacked by a Deathclaw. “Oh yay, open worl…” one shot kill reload at checkpoint far away

Diversity: Agree/Disagree. There are some pallet swaps of mobs, but nowhere near the level of a traditional RPG. There’s actually quite a bit of varied monster models.

Map diversity: Disagree. There are several times where I found hidden quests by interacting with a seemingly inconspicuous background object. This includes grass piles which have given me quest objects and a group of mushrooms that got me raided by Red Fishermen.

Game too easy: Agree, somewhat. Some mobs are too easy, yes. Some will punish you for just existing if you were foolish enough to go full damage.

Map monsters do no damage: Strongly disagree.

Partying absolutely useless: Disagree. I solo and prefer to more often than not, but even I can see the benefit of partying.

Stat system: Agree. Stats need to do more, but I don’t have a problem with the simple damage formulas. There should be more unique effects, but the easy to grasp calculations make them more accessible for a larger number of people and allow build diversity not to be an esoteric matter for only hardcore gamers.

Items: Agree, somewhat. The actual +damage doesn’t typically matter, but the secondary effects are huge and definitely worth upgrading for.

Towns: Played La Tale? Actually, a lot of games I’ve played have had their towns spread out at just about the same rate. You find a new town when there is a necessity for NPCs to offer higher level gear/job changes/etc.

Story: Indifferent. That’s subjective. I didn’t mind the story, but I feel the translations need a once over to make the prose more attractive. It wasn’t boring to me, but it could be better.

Replay value: Replay value…? In an MMO…? People reroll characters all the time, sure, but this isn’t a Bethesda game, or The Witcher or something. The experience in just about every MMO game depends on what you do with the character itself and not how the character interacts with the NPCs.

Battle System: Agree. This is why I’m playing still.

2 Likes

Please change the Linearity of this game to be more dynamic and free just like the OP said. Make the bosses harder plz…in terms of diversity his attack patterns not on his dmg…as I feel the field boss attack dmg are ok.

And the dungeon is a let down. The dungeons map should be bigger, whn enter the dungeon makes me feel like I’m entering a mini map instead of dungeons which is suppose to be exciting to be clear and explore with party members.

2 Likes

I want some endgame world bosses that ppl will feel like a worm trying to kill an elephant. This thing Just swallowed your soul little boy, call your friends and try again.
I jusy love these challenges that you need an entire party with specific equipments

That’s an horrible point of view. Especially when there are Levels above the 200~
And Ragnarok absolutely wasn’t just about reaching the cap. It was a part of the game, but you could also play WoE with Level 80 and 90. When all people just want the endgame there will come the point where no new players are getting into it - the game dies.

2 Likes

Nice feedback :+1:
/20characters

2 Likes