Tree of Savior Forum

[Discussion] How would you improve the Enhancement System?

General Discussion
#1

One of the biggest debates here is how the Enhancement System works, and how it feels regarding accomplishment or, therefore, frustration. This system is always a hot topic on how fair it is, how rewarding it can be, but also how a high upgraded weapon can be seen as a result of illegal acts, instead of a symbol of great achievement.

I think we can have a discussion here on how we would like to see it changing, and what would improve it in a way that players will not get frustrated by attempting a high enhanced weapon, cause we see here and there people that left the game because they ended up destroying the weapon that they wanted to use because of enhancement attempts.

Interesting info before starting

Here is a topic that summarizes a lot of stuff regarding enhancement probabilities and general feel of the actual enhance system:

And we also have here the code behind the enhancement system, for those who want to see it and might have missed:

Now my personal opinion:

I think that we have 2 main issues with our enhancement system:

  1. The success rate itself, what makes lower levels unrewarding
  2. The penalty for failing, what makes a very punishing downgrade on higher levels

Although I like this idea of having virtually 50/50 chance after +8, this is only 20%, or 1/5 of the maximum level range we can accomplish. Also, from +5 (last garanteed success) from +8 (where you will have the same “coded luck” until the end) is only 3 levels of real change on luck %, a very inexpressive number when you look at the +40 maximum value. Sure this remove the classical % chance (moderator of a lot of games out there) and could make higher levels more accessible, but it would be more suitable on a +20 cap maybe, where these levels would represent: 25% guaranteed success (+5), 40% to reach luck curve (+8), then the last 60% would be completely 50/50 chances, consuming potentials when fail. Sadly it isn’t these percentages, and this actual 50/50 chance stumble on the next faulty: penalties.

Now the penalty that is really a pain is the -5 one, where a failed attempt would remove 5 lucky ones. Fail a second time would remove 10 lucky attempts. There is no much to discuss here, because I imagine that people who loose 5 enhancement levels would stop trying, really. This creates a fear that attempting again would make you loose even more, then people might simple stop trying. With so many things these days consuming Potential of weapons, you don’t have room for more Enhancement attempts, or either play with your luck unless you have a backup option.

So my suggestion would be:

  • Change the Failure penalties: Although I think the success rate would love some changes (next point), I think the failure penalties are the biggest problem, really. So I think that should change to no level reduction (only potential) until +12, -1 Level until +25, -2 Levels until +35, -4 Levels from +36 to +40. I think this would make it less of a burden, reducing also the fear from players on attempting higher values. And the real burden would be the last 5 levels, where if you fail you go back all the way to the last “penalty checkpoint”.

  • Expand the success rate: As I said, I like the 50/50 aspect, I just think it starts too soon, making lower levels unrewarding. My suggestion would be to keep the +5 guaranteed success, then form +6 to +20, you gonna have a success % table, going all the way from 90% to 50%, then when you reach this level (which is half of the way) your dificulty factor will be the failure penalties cause we would start the 50/50 chance aspect again…

WIth these changes, we would have:

  • +5: guaranteed
  • +6 to +12: low % fail, potential lost when fail
  • +13 to +20: medium % fail, potential and 1 level lost when fail
  • +21 to +25: 50/50 chance, potential and 1 level lost when fail
  • +26 to +35: 50/50 chance, potential and 2 levels lost when fail
  • +36 to MAX: 50/50 chance, potential and 4 levels lost when fail

Extra - change some anvils (or add new ones) to work on luck chance: that would be nice to have anvils to work on that luck chance, instead of only not consuming Potential and Silver.

What you guys think? What would you do to change the Enhancement System?

I hope we can have a good discussion, and this can reach @Staff so they can follow up on what we would like to see improved.

1 Like
Feelsbadman :sadpepe:
What's up with the enhancement rates?
#2

I would remove potential from being reduced on fail
Make diamond anvils 100% successful upgrade but costs 1 potential

5 Likes
#3

I’d abolish Transcendence, roll the stat values from 1-10 trans into 6-40 enhancement, and make Blessed Gems of the Goddess improve success rates, all the way up to 100%, if you’re willing to commit enough gems, until +21. After that, you’d have maybe a 25% chance of making it to +30 with generic anvils, and +40 would remain an impossible fantasy.

This system would actually make no one happy but me. People would still look at it as RNG hell. I’m just of the opinion that there are too many parallel upgrade systems.

3 Likes
#4

They like all these complicated improvement systems… a lot of games do it these days. :confused:

I one hand, all those different things and random numbers can create “unique” and “different” weapons. But it sure does create a level of complicated stuff to plan and think about.

I kind of like your Idea, but I also like the transcendence system cause it is the simplest of all enhancement gimmicks you can have, where you know what you need, what and how you will get the benefits.

#5

+1 doesn’t have anything to say, but I would like to see a rework of the current enhancement system

#6

Add Supreme Ultra Anvils that add+40 to any item and put them in gacha cubes.

#7

Easy:

1.) Cap at +21, remove Diamond Anvils.

Allow anyone with higher than +21 currently to have their same weapon at +21, then offer some kind of compensation for every +1 above it, either in the form of the silver they spent in DAs to get there.

2.) Make upgrades increase more than just damage depending on the weapon. Alternatively, allow transcendence (or new enchant system?) to alter what gets increased. Include things like a base stat (str, spr, etc), damage type or healing/defense type, summon/pet damage, increased money from shop sales–no matter how outlandish, someone might want to use it.

6 Likes
#8

Just copy Kritika Online equipment enhancement system.

Main characteristics of Kritika Online system:

  • Pure silver sink mixed with RNG without penalties
  • Capped enhancement level according to the item level and rarity
  • Enhancement is done by a NPC
  • No enhancement level loss upon failure
  • No equipment destroyed upon failure
  • Very low chances that decrease with enhancement level, but increases with successive failures (instead of 51,something% success rate as the minimum chance)
  • Whetstones with different rarities gained through quests, daily/weekly achievements and events consumed during enhancement attempts to increase the success rate based on the whetstone rarity
  • Repair hammers obtainable in the same way used to repair the gear’s stability (equivalent to item potential in ToS)
7 Likes
#9
  • Cap enhancement at +21
  • Compensate players for equipment over +21
  • No longer lose potential upon failure
  • Make Diamond, Gold, and Silver anvils obtained more reasonably from future and existent content
  • Gold Anvils now have a higher chance of succeeding instead of being used at 0 Potential, (they also no longer reduce enhancement to +10)
  • Add extra rare Platinum anvil that’s a Diamond-Gold hybrid
  • Reduce chance of success the higher you enhance (this is to keep Diamond, Gold and Platinum anvils relevant)

This system is primarily designed to work under current circumstances, there are less probability focused options that could also be better, but this would work given current mechanics.

11 Likes
#10

With the +40 idea u still contributing to keep the enhacement system as a FAILURE

The way to fix it is to set a low enhacement cap like +15 and adjusting the difficulty

0-5 safe
6-10 low to mid chances to fail (no potential lost)

Now the real deal starts when dealing from 10->15

+11: 50% chance to fail with 30% chance to lose -1 potential when failing
+12: 60% chance to fail with 30% chance to lose -1 potential when failing
+13: 70% chance to fail with 30% chance to lose -2 potential when failing
+14: 80% chance to fail with 40% chance to lose -2 potential when failing
+15: 90% chance to fail with 50% chance to lose -3 potential when failing

And they should give 2 handed weapons 2 more potential due their socket needs

May look harsh but the curve should go better after +11 and it needs to be difficult to make +15 something worth the investment

Also if u thought my idea is kind of harsh, i’ll tell u ppl, RYL (Risk Your Life) had an insane difficulty on that, being +9 the highest (with proly a 1-2% chances to get it), only +6 being “safe” since from +7 it would DESTROY your equipment on failure, also if it didn’t destroy it, failure at any level would cause a downgrade back to +0
Also the item stats were pure randomness, (from attack values to extra bonuses) so to risk your close-to-top stats equipment u needed balls or feeling like quitting the game

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1 Like
#11

so how many has quit RYL because of that?

i just quit ToS about a week now after coming back about 3month from 2 years break…just to get dissapoint to break my masi weapon to 0pot with +7…and that sure make me delete ToS straight away…

why IMC want to make system to lose their player instead they can make a friendly system to make their player stay and enjoy…those people that support this system usually they lucky/rich/hardcore player…because man without luck iam sure your life will be hell in ToS, and your life is easy if you have cash to spend on this game to buy those upgrade instead depending on your luck…

like pokart mention about Kritika Online enchancement…maybe that is not the best system and less rewarding but iam preety much sure system like that will attract more player and create huge community instead targeting small community which like hardcore playing system.

1 Like
#12

and i know that most people doesnt even care to git gud in the game, unlike Ktos or any MMORPG in korea which they always want to git gud to show other…mostly player play because they want to have a test on equipment, to get to wear it and feel it…they want to enchance to +15 just like other not to git gud but just because they want to feel the damage of it…not to mention how ridiculous long to grinding those 1 set lagendary equipment if you not planning to reroll…if ToS make those lagendary less time and money consuming maybe it will be less rewarding but iam pretty much sure it will make huge player happy rather than those small hardcore RNG lover player…having huge player base is good for game economy/developer/company.

1 Like
#13

I do think that 40 is quite a high cap at first sight. But I see the main issue on how to achieve this cap, actually. Cause a maximum level should be hard, but not almost impossible. I think we would be having the same debate if the maximum level was 10 but barely reaching 5, for example.

And this is the problem in my opinion, cause today it is so hard and almost impossible to achieve, that anyone that shows up with something close to it (gosh, even 30+ enhance level) is immediately considered a cheater or illegal abuser, instead of praised by his effort.

I think that a reduction on cap level would be healthy, and with that you probably will have to change anything more, really. Specially if you cut this cap by half and max it at 20, then you probably don’t have to change penalties and success rates.

But how to fairly repay people who spent on their equipment to go over the new enhancement cap, whatever it may be? Cause it is different from Transcendence, where you have set values and a visible amount of effort that you have to invest. Enhance, on the other hand, is hard to determine how many (and which kind of) anvils were used, attempts, silver spent… how to do a fair return to people that achieve something over the new cap?

Also, about the potential system: I think only enhancement should consume it. Even gem sockets should be something automatic, without the necessity of opening them beforehand. Potential should be strict to enhancement, in my idea. Even this last Ichor thing should not be related to Potential, I don’t see a correlation for this to be related to a weapon’s potential. Edit: maybe re-identify too, for items that relay on this feature…

1 Like
#14

The solution is to not use RNG, make 100% of the upgrades of the game like gem upgrade, which is basically upgrade by playing the game.

4 Likes
#15

Nobody quitted because of enhacement in RYL, in fact it was a harsh but FAIR system
The game is almost 2 decades old ( officially died around 2006 and kinda revived like 4 years ago as “Return of Warrior”) and there still are plenty of private servers (and yea they keep that system alive)

#16

nah, gem leveling is more like whaling at its finest
People buying lv10 gem enhacers and they dont even work (lmao)

#17

i dont see any problem with high ench weapon, because its nothing
if you have have +30 weap you can only faster doing daily things, that all
+30 weap not help on bosses, but for this you need normal party and too many supports, because they have defence, you maybe can kill faster 1 2 boss from all, its not help on tbl, if you noob, its not help in guild quest 17 18 lvl, if you dont have normal guild.
+30 weap its personal thing,which does not affect on hard content in game
:tired:

#18

Here is what i think about Enhancement System:

  • The amount of potential of each equipment has to be readjusted, according to equipment type, grade and level, where grade would mean greater than level, but less than type. Currently a Masinios Pike and a Shield has the same amount of Potential while the first able to has 5 slots and the second is 3. A 350 Ausuras armor also has 13 Potential, but only one slot. After socketing the pike gets a pot of 8, shield is 10, armor 12. But when it comes to enhancing the rules are the same for any kind of weapon or armor, which means its disadvantageous to refine a pike compared to an armor.

  • Potential loss should only be related to enhancement and transcending! No need to loose 1 for 1 slot unlocking! Ichor should not consume potential at all when fails to transfer stats! Now there is too many gimmicks that consume potential! This has to change or give an option where you can recover potential!
    For example: when enhancing is succesful, a random number generator generates a number and if the conditions are met 1 potential is recovered! On higher enhancement levels the chances is a bit higher, but caps at a certain ratio. It is unlogical we have a system that prevents players to destroy their hard earned equipment while strenghtning, but gives no option to recover a potential loss. Potential gets lower and lower till it hits zero, and than you need to use Golden Anvils, but there is no absolute method to get those… :unamused:

Remember this?

After the big combat changes, equipment took a major role of our battle capabilities. For players to maximalize their builds should have to get the funds and enhance their weapons to do proper damage for the desired content, and able to withstand against the foes they are facing. Yet the mechanics to help them reach that point is remained unchanged, as it seems, outdated, and who knows where this leads us to.

1 Like
#19

Keep the difficulty but remove potential system completely

2 Likes
#20

Upgrades are already compressed after +21, on 350 gear each upgrade gives 100atk after +21.
Just increase the golden anvil drops back to what we had before r9, and everyone can have a +11.
For PvP, upgrades do not matter, any class with defense reducing skills will two-shot you.

1 Like