Tree of Savior Forum

[Discussion] Buff limit

So, i never really heard about a topic that was implemented, there are a LOT of good sugestions in this fórum, it really let me down ;(

But hey, sticking to the subject:


Some of the new players might not know, but in ToS we have this weird feature where buffs have “tiers”

The most common buffs are rank 1 buffs and some few ones are rank 2 buffs

You can have as many rank 2 buffs simultaneously as you want.
But, there is a cap of 5 rank 1 buffs simultaneously, 7 for swordsmans.

If you get any new buff after the cap, the new buff will overlap and overwrite the “oldest” buff you have

Like, if you have the following buffs “1, 2, 3, 4, 5” and someone uses a 6th and 7th buffs, a swordsman would have “1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7” while the rest would have “3, 4, 5, 6, 7”

The only way to increase this limit being have a krivis on your party using the rank 2 buff “Daino”, wich increase the limit by " 1+skill level"

And this is really annoying, there are 4 class trees, archer, swordsman, cleric and wizzard, every character can have up to 7 ranks for now, every rank comes with new spells, with new spells there are new buffs, and we can have 5 members in a party for now…

Some classes alone have a lot of buffs. Priests, for instance, alone have more than 5 party buffs, which means that if you have a priest without a krivis you can’t have fun. You probably won’t have room for your own buffs, because the priest will buff the whole party with important things, and your reflect shield is not important enough!

I have been in parties where one player insisted on using his buff while the other 4 players were complaining that he was overlapping theirs!

But how can we possible pohib him from using his spell? He is playing his char and he likes to use it D:

My point is, this feature won’t work, it’s poorly implemented, it just makes krivis obrigatory, you must have a krivis in your party in order to use all the buffs, you must buy Daino scrolls if a krivis is not available, you must use essential spells only if you can’t have either…

This isn’t fun, most people don’t like it and it needs to be reevaluated.

The best solution would be to improve this feature, either with something like “every rank increased the buff cap”, or add some more room for buffs, create something like a " preference" menu, or just remove this buff cap and give krivis something else, like another dmg spell or another buff, anything, imagination is the limit!

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long post, here is an awesome GIF as a reward:

9 Likes



1 Like

and yet, nothing has changed.

If a Cleric can use all of their buffs at the same time, it will make Cleric unstoppable, unkilllable, and ppl will start to call this game as Tree of Cleric or Tree of Buffs.

Because they don’t want to change it and they are correct to do so IMO.

Good suggestion, but make it so every 3-4 ranks will increase 1 buff cap.

Buff limit encourage ppl to wisely use their buffs, rotate their skills, with better party management.
Without buff limit, this game will turn into a game where the character with the most buffs wins.

So overall, I personally agree with the buff limit mechanic.

6 Likes

People buy Daino scrolls and do exactly this, and yet this was Tree of Swordsman, of cryomancer and quartel shooters (and now musketeer)

Buff limit just makes krivis a high demanded class, and gives reasons to ppl complain in parties.

Also, almost every cleric buff is a party buff, so they won’t have that much advantage

And if it’s 1v1 it really don’t impact that much, the problem is specifically in a party setup (i mean, clerics will still use revive, stone skin and etc separadetly to cover all the cooldown rotations, using everything at once would open holes in CD)

You’re speaking for them or did they indeed said anything?

So, what do you do when a friendly sorc cast his cat near you ?

The point is : people can’t buff themselves cause it will harm the party.
This isn’t a good mechanic.
There should be something like a switch making the party buffs caster only.

2 Likes

That’s exactly the point

They did changed the cat though, now it’s rank 2, thanks to the heavens xD

But this still happens with a lot of party setups @_@
And will only get worse when more classes/ranks comes up

Almost every cleric buff is a party buff and that is exactly why they will also have their advantages.

I’m speaking for them. So far, IMC did nothing about it, so I can assume they really don’t want to change it.

I did nothing, considering I almost never played with Sorcerer in a party. What does it do? Is it a party buff?

You mean, ppl are afraid to buff themselves because their buffs might get replaced by other buffs from other party members?
Party management and teamwork is your solution then. And Krivis’ Daino.

I don’t mind a new topic about this because no change yet. I think I see things differently too now that we know more and more about the game. PvP came in too and we know buff limit kinda sux there too for example.
But there are 2 problems here that we should separate. One is the buff limit…and the other is the overwriting what makes buff limit even worse.

Anyway I find the overwrite issue bigger because it rly affects everyone. Someone once suggested somekind of list or something where you could set priorities of buffs. That would be quite good but I would be already happy if we would get attributes to all buffs seperately that could prevent your own buffs on yourself to be overwritten.

But the buff limit is rly too limited too. It doesn’t support party play… it supports party play with Krivis lol… I said in my Krivis thread that if Daino would be moved to c2 and it’s max level would be set to 10 then the basic buff limit could be raised to 10 to everybody too what would be much nicer imo.

I actually think this is kinda a 3rd problem. I think their basic idea was maybe that we should choose between the buffs and not have all of them… but they messed this up with the skill scaling. Like who wouldn’t want at least lvl 1 Aspersion when it already gives +20% DEF? I like that lvl 1-5 skills are mostly already good but they shouldn’t think we will actually skip them then…XD

We already discussed this on other thread and i will skip the text wall on the OP post. Sorry i am very sick today and my head hurt as ■■■■ lol.

What i am about to say will probably enable the RAGE mode on some people but lets go.
One (ex: Sorc) can go away from the group, use the cat, after finish, if he is a linker C2 he can use SC to pass it to others (just to make sure i am not saying anything stupid does SC have a limit on what it can share? Or it just share the buffs on the caster to the group?).

I don’t get why isn’t a good mechanic, i don’t want to walk around with 3 lines of icons under my Char life bar covering my party life bar, specially if i am healing.

And where that would help? How a Monk will use it’s buff (Healing aura from pally and Aspersion)? Not to say other classes that use similar stuff and it is group oriented?

At level 5 it cast 5 buffs, which can overwrite other buffs, one for AoE rate, one for SP rec, one for HP rec, one for Dark damage and the last one i forgot now, i think its resistance or something.[quote=“Erokhi, post:8, topic:136969”]
You mean, ppl are afraid to buff themselves because their buffs might get replaced by other buffs from other party members?Party management and teamwork is your solution then. And Krivis’ Daino.
[/quote]
Pretty much this ^, you people are used to play like other games where you can fill your screen with buffs and debuffs thinking its the right thing but that imo take the whole fun from the game, what is the point in being OP? Then later on you start to complain that the game is too easy because of all the buffs you can get, the game as it is already is pretty easy, i do have high expectations they will do some revamp on the AI for monsters and bosses.

1 Like

What if :
Your current buffs won’t be replaced by new buffs. Does that solve anything? Just asking.

This is a good solution.
So you can simply have an option for your character like :

  • Which of your own buffs that won’t be able to get replaced by other buffs
  • Whose character’s buffs do your character prioritize. So you can prioritize yourself, and then Cleric 2nd, and then other classes below, or just make your own order
  • Or you can “reject” buffs from others so your buffs won’t get replaced

I see. Now I understand the fuss.
IMC can simply change that skill so all of the buffs will be merged into 1 buff, and then reduce the effects or remove some effects or move it to higher rank such as Sorcerer c2 or c3 (considering how crap c3 is).

What if:
Instead of new buffs overwriting old buffs, new buffs get added to a queue.

  • As soon as an old buff runs out, the next buff in the queue becomes active.
  • You also have the ability to immediately cancel any active buffs on yourself.
  • Casting a buff that is already active simply resets the duration on it instead of adding the new buff to the queue.

Problems with this:

  1. [quote=“nando20xx, post:10, topic:136969”]
    i don’t want to walk around with 3 lines of icons under my Char life bar covering my party life bar, specially if i am healing.
    [/quote]
    You will have 3 lines of inactive, queued buffs.

If you have 5 active buffs and 5 queued buffs, and you decide you want Reflect Shield, you will need to cancel all 5 of those queued buffs to activate Reflect Shield. This could be solved by, for example, letting you hold Shift+click on a queued Reflect Shield, then continue holding Shift+click on an active buff, and it will cancel the active buff and set Reflect Shield as active.

Being able to queue buffs makes players stronger.

Edit:
Option 2:
Instead of Shift+clicking to replace an active buff, you can drag buffs around in the queued buff list to prioritize which buff will become active next… which I realize is a “Priority List” which has already been suggested, but it is all about implementation so the “Priority List” is not overly complex :wink:

2 Likes

No, I don’t think so because that would mean if a Priest already put 5 buffs on you you can’t use your own anymore…XD

Also don’t worry about that sorc skill anymore… that was changed to be on the second row (there is no limit there)…or how Tomazelli said it’s rank 2 now.

And that’s where the “buff priority” mechanic comes in :

  • You can decide your own buffs that won’t be able to get replaced by other buffs. For example, if I’m playing a Swordsman, if I use Finestra, Finestra won’t be replaced no matter what.

  • I can make my own “buff priority list”. So I can prioritize myself, and then Cleric 2nd, and then other classes as lowest priorities. Continue from the 1st point. If my Finestra is on cooldown, and then I already have 7 buffs (max cap for Swordie’s buff), I can replace 1 of those 7 buffs that has the lowest priority with my Finestra because my Finestra is the highest priority buff.

  • As addition, I can also “reject” buffs from others so my buffs won’t get replaced by other characters buffs. And at the same time, I will never accept any buff from those characters.

As it is now, this feature is poorly implemented, this is the point of a discussion xD

There were already some good suggestions, we just need a miracle and IMC games actually do something based on our feedback D:

  1. Lots of people like it.
  2. There is a reason buffs on this game have a short duration, this is not WOW they are not supposed to be up 24/7
  3. use the search function this topic has been beaten to death.
1 Like

Its interesting but the fact that if you have a buff running and you recast it will refresh the time counter, then the queue system get useless.

One thing is, besides the main line of buffing (the limited 5) there is a second line with no limit, but there is barely buffs to fill it i think, so one thing that could be done is, leave the limit as it is, or make it so that skills like SC share all the party buffs (except the ones that are already on everyone) and make it display on that second line, but, limit the number shown there, there are some games that add a small hide/show button, like the one on Windows tray icon, so the player that want to check click there to show or hide it, or increase 1-2 buff slots (it would go to 6 or 7 buff slots) which i think its fine.

That is good to know.

It’s the opposite. Buffers (or buffed players) become angry because their buff (especially the high acd ones) are replaced by other ones (casted by the guy wanting to buff himself).

You don’t understand how a switch works, do you ?
I want to buff party, I put the switch “on”.
I only want to buff myself, I put the switch “off”.
Let’s call this switch “Enable Party Buffs” \o/
In a perfect world, you could even use a key combination to change the switch state :slightly_smiling:

@Daenerys
The queue is a nice idea.

Oh yeah ! Finally !

raid coming! now krivis c3 in pt is a must. hahaha…
i hope nothing change. just deal with it, dude!

2 Likes