Tree of Savior Forum

Why i quitted the game, today

General Discussion
#38

The moment when you try to use real-life logic for a game is the moment you’ve failed to disassociate a game from real life.

Game concepts do not need to be hindered by realistic concepts.

It’s completely possible for a game to hand out items and players can still feel as if their particular item is special. The problem is with how Tree of Savior does it.

Everything in this game is a silver sink. Enhancement is tied to potential and in order to get a weapon into higher enhancement levels you need luck, potential and silver.

Potential is practically unnecessary since failing to enhance means using more silver just to get back to a previous enhance stage anyways. If there was no potential, the difference between one player getting a +15 item and another would be how much silver they spent, and it would still hold significance because of how important silver is in the game (attributes, repairs, resources, etc).

Potential just limits the lifetime of an item so it doesn’t exist forever, but its problematic when people are willing to spend silver on their items as opposed to other things like attributes just to upgrade. Potential limits their ability to continue upgrading, and if they expend most of their silver only to reach a low upgrade level with no possibility of going further, they feel robbed… and rightfully so.

If potential was not tied to enhancement and only to trading, I could accept it. It would mean that the item can only be traded a limited number of times before it is locked to someone. It would still serve the purpose of effectively removing the item from circulation without actually having to destroy the item.

Potential, in its current implementation, just feels like an unnecessary constraint. Why punish players even further from trying to enhance when its more than enough to require more silver for upgrade chances?

17 Likes
#39

Wait !! Just wait until Neco’s skeleton buff, so they can afk farm loot for us.

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#40

@yipgallery when prices get lower then i personally have nothing against afk farmers :smiley_cat:

#41

You are cute. You complaining about DPK, which guarantees a regular item input to the market, and RNG. You are really cute.

#42

I think that potential helps to make each item more into it’s own thing - some having more value and some having less value. I am not a fan of games having 100% carbon copied items for everyone so I can somewhat appreciate the rng factor.

right now potential is necessary if you want some items to be worth more than others. if there was no potential cap then you would have to put a hard cap such as not going past +16 which means that all items would be carbon copies. in a game where you don’t want items to be carbon copies you have to make things random or different from one another in some way. in some ways diminishing returns for higher enhancement levels does kill two birds with one stone even if it does kill some/most of the reason why you want higher enhancement levels.

I don’t love that I have a 50%~ chance of failing or succeeding. I don’t think this system is perfect but I also don’t know if other ways would be worse. look at what happened when people complained that rank 8 content was too hard. now it’s too easy. “improvements” are not always going to be improvements.

you can’t completely separate game concepts from real life because you are still you and it is glaringly obvious that there are different personality types that want different things to be in the game.

maybe they should just merge transcendence and anviling items. merge missions with saalus too and make about 20+ more kinds of them that are fun and challenging ( and always keep patching in new missions since they are “dailies”). utilize all the bosses that you already have in your database and utilize lots of the areas that are effectively “ghost town zones” since they are already a created resource within the game. this will also give more incentive to fixing your zones that might be a bit buggy. make missions give a set amount of item enhancing items per team ( the shards will have to be untradable) but make them able to be done as many times as you want and give other incentives to do them besides “for the shards” such as a cube with a chance for a rare item mat drop as the alternate reward for shards. make them difficult so that bots have a much harder time botting them 24/7. /coffee

#43

  1. I’m all for the good/great ideas that people have provided regarding the loot system, but personally it doesn’t affect me as much as those who actively toiled for their materials thru direct farming (I did dailies on 8 characters for 2 weeks and 2 days and bought my entire Yellow Caro Antenna requirement thru the market).

  2. Cubes, most might argue, are good for ET (whether ET itself is a good pseudo-endgame is a different topic) because it allows them to hold on to their [tentative materials] and they have the option to spend some extra silver to get more material per run (assuming they do). I agree that it’s a bit off-base for the HGs though, although I’ve visited each HG once and never came back to them.

  3. This is sadly true and I feel for you on this on the less exaggerated end of things (I’ve played for 3700+ hours now) and I have encountered a lot of people that have resorted to Necromancy (get it?) to stay “competitive”. I’ve never succumbed to it though and with my experience playing the game, I remain relatively well geared all things considered.

  4. Not really my cup of tea, so I’ll leave this to the others.

  5. You’re not the only one. Though honestly, channel crash-abusers aside, the upgrade RNG feels fair enough for me that I have my wins and my losses as well, and so do other people.

Here’s some more to keep you company:

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But it’s not all worse-case scenarios, there’s plenty of people that (like me… maybe) enjoy the thrill of the upgrade (not so much the need to farm so many things to prepare for it though).

11 RHS Fail.jpg956×848 265 KB

11 RHS Success.jpg951×802 280 KB

Lastly, I don’t agree with this wholeheartedly as it is possible to stay ahead (at least above the mediocre/average) without having to resort to doing anything against the rules… sadly people that do abuse the game, do get ahead by a lot, so that’s where we see eye-to-eye.

11 Likes
#44

Was about to do the same yesterday when after 1 week and maybe 3-5 days(farming from 5 to 7 hours daily) i got my staff from hg 315 and guess what, the stupid 100% fail when fps are low just killed more than 7m and the potential of the item to the point where i just npc sold it and closed the game. Thanks game for punishing me even harder for having a kinda low spec PC, anvils breaking in 1 hit and failing, cant ask a friend to refine it for me because guess what? the token trade limit was done with 20 days of token left, isnt that awesome? oh and let me share the secret on getting HG 300 weapon cubes, you have to do it on CH1, otherwise you’ll waste weeks (like our guild did) without any droppiing because only god know how the ■■■■ DPK works atm since the staff doesnt even bother to say a thing.

Might as well make a necro to dina AFK farm and stop playing untill rank 9, saving money to make a +26 crashing channels and look at the forums each update to seek for bugs to exploit and get rewarded by doing it, because doing the things the “right” way doesnt seem to work.

9 Likes
#45
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#46

what the F*** are you talking about? there’s no 100% fail when fps are low, lol. you are delusional. when you hit the first time an anvil the game has already decided if it will fail on one of the 3 hits randomly.

Also staff already told us the new dpk is map-wide and not channel-wide in one of the last interviews.

1 Like
#47

No, when your fps is low you definitely seem to fail more often

Just go to laggy ass ch 1 Klaipeda and see for yourself

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#48

Remember to dance 3 times before upgrading and only upgrade in an high level field, having templar 2 in party increases the chances by 5%

#49

At least, you have those weaps.
I had to wait 6 month for 1 practo, and I have to wait another 6 for the 2nd? No thanks.
I constantly fail to upgrade my equip and I don’t have money anymore, and I’m tired to farm again again and again money/items with this shitty DPK.

1 Like
#50

Except for the Lionhead Shield (was +10, tried +11, failed and continued to fail until down to +6) and Sage Wall (broken) all of those images aren’t my items.

I was trying to console OP (sort of) and let him know that others (not just him) have experienced terrible luck in their upgrades… most of those people still soldiered on though (some even embraced what they’re left with and just dealt with it).

But definitely it’s no fun making and remaking those oranges… once is usually enough (unless it something with easy mats like RHP, I’ve seen people remake this weapon a lot in particular).

It does feel like it, but honestly, I haven’t upgraded the [clover] to +15 in about a week now on solo channels, not until I tried upgrading it in the middle of [AH vs LO]'s guild squabble in Svalphingas Forest Ch1 and I finally got it to +15 after a lot of wasted chances to get a Gold Anvil (to once again re-attempt my failed LH Shield).

Started from +0 right then and there…

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1 Like
#51

Its not fun when IMC wants you to struggle with DPK for ages, just to be unlucky and have your weapon permanently +7 or something similar. It really leaves a bitter feeling. Theres no way to fight the RNG except maybe diamond anvils, so your endgame gear is completely at the mercy of RNG, which is pretty sad honestly.

6 Likes
#52

I made a Manamana to +11 with 8 potential left. Opened a socket and called it a day.

I knew. I knew if I tried to make it +13 it would go into the “fail spiral”.

Tried to upgrade it today and that exactly happened.

The RNG is brutal in this game. There should be “safety” levels or something. I went from a +11 weapon to +7 in 10 seconds with 0 potential left. I swear, failure is coded into some weapons.

1 Like
#53

I swear, failure is coded into some weapons.

success and failure is intrinsic to risk…

we’re basically playing a game of risk when we anvil past the “safety” levels of +5 for weapons and +3 for armor…

i mean, nobody complains when they succeed… right???

1 Like
#54

Oh I’m sorry! I thought were yours!

The system is wrong.
The RNG in upgrade, when they are a must have right now, is a mistake.
For example: I really love PSO2 upgrade system. It’s based on % but, everyone will have their weap at max upgrade!
Isn’t expensive like Tree of Savior.
And even if you are unlucky, you can farm or wait another week for weekly quest for money!

#55

At 11, 16 and so no. At that lvls fail to upgrade should not decrease the upgrade lvl

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#56

All the people I like in forum disappeared.

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#57

I feel like a lot of these complaints about the gear system are just salt for bad RNG.

I’ve played quite a few mmos and all of them have some kind of RNG enchant system, but ToS doesn’t have the worst one by far. Anvils are shop purchasable, gold anvils drop in-game and don’t cost real money and allow you to attempt to upgrade broken gear, even if you get unlucky, and upgrading the item itself doesn’t completely blow it up if you fail, you only lose potential.

One comparison that comes to mind right now is Mabinogi and its special upgrade system. It’s enchant system too, actually. You have to find the special upgrade stones which are uncommon drops and on top of that you only have a 100% success rate for the first upgrade, after which it drops to like 50%. If you fail, regardless of upgrade level, it goes down 1 level. You can use 30 stones and end up at +0. If you fail special upgrading to +6 / 7, your gear EXPLODES. Poof. All that investment for nothing and the % success rate was even worse. With enchants, failing breaks max durability off your gear and failing a high level enchant destroys your gear completely.

ToS is quite forgiving compared to other games out there and the fact you can “git gud” without spending any real money is something that players are incredibly ungrateful for, it seems.

Not saying this game is perfect, not by a longshot, but the fact that it’s still pretty good is being swept under the rug with all the salt as well.

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