Tree of Savior Forum

Tokens -> Immediate Attributes? You mean Pay2Win?

This is really a seperate topic altogether but okay, I’ll discuss.

Whales are always to be expected on F2P games, they will pay their way to everything because they have the money. This is unavoidable, there WILL always be whales.

But the reason why the game is still not P2W is because silvers are not gated by IRL cash. Not to mention, tokens can be bought by silvers through market lessening the casher’s advantage by not making it exclusive to them but also available to the F2P playerbase.

Also, the real meaning of P2W is not paying for convenience. P2W means you PAY to WIN which in this game isn’t necessary because as long as you have silvers you have access to any advantage a casher can have.

Just log in to call you retard/nerd

Token 400k silver
2 hours playing. ggwp
Unistall ToS ty.

Nope, i bought the 3rd package, and, in one week, i made 500k silver to buy my token, after more one week i bought the 1st with 60days…

I didn’t like that system about instant learn in atributes, if this was something about with cost reduced by 10% would be better.

Now I have tons of money and some good equipments by farming boss with the good old friend, RNGesus.

By the time I’m no longer limited by Silver, any free-to-play user will have bought a Token using Silver themselves.

I guess I agree, I can’t really sayu it isnt pay2win with that explanation. Though i hadnt really thought about it until now.

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1299 per buff is expensive lmao. People selling them only 800 in Kr.

Buy a token. It’s less than 300k. Easy.

300k farming in Demon Prison for a couple of hours is easy. Time consuming but easy. Buy the cheapest DLC pack. Get a token for free/sell a token with remaining TP/buy attributes. Easy.

Non-working: Save a measly 1 dollar a day for 15 days = cheap DLC. Easy.
Working: Buy the damn thing for only 14.99 = Easy.

BUT I Agree. I liked the fact that waiting on attributes was a thing. Now people with high amount of silver at early levels (RMT/goldbought) would have a fairly huge advantage over others who just started/fresh characters.

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I agree with you 100%. Everyone should be limited to playing 3 hours a day, since some of us have jobs that prevent us from playing more. It’s been going on for too long that some players can play 15 hours a day getting a HUGE advantage as you say.

Guys, please join MelioettaZyguard and I and sign a petition to limit players to 3 hours of playtime a day! The time advantage is too unfair to working adults!

I’m also against instantly learning attributes, but as has been said on this forum, it’s so easy to get the money to buy a token, you’ll have that much on like your second or third day of playing most likely. The attributes cost way, way more than the token.

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Silver is indeed not gated by cash.
But its like comparing a trickle for f2p (unless you know a lot of trade secrets heh heh, then its more like a stream) vs a flood for whale.

Also the argument is not about having a token, its about making silver through selling token after f2p release. This game has multiple silver drains based on power ups ex. rediculously expensive attributes, equipment enchancing. Although f2p experts may eventually catch up to whales, it will take maybe half a year. This puts a large enough gap between <100$ players and whalers, enough to justify the p2w story.

Not saying this game is P2W, ive played too many true p2w games and this is tame in comparison. But it would be naive to claim no f2p at this point.

Token isn’t that expensive… (for now).

Welcome to free to play.

You give your money or your time.

You have to pick one.

Because tokens cost like 200-500k? How’s that Pay2Win? A friend of mine made 500k and bought him a token.

The token costs 300k-400k market, stop crying kid

most players wont have the opportunity to buy them that cheap (isnt it so cheap atm cause bots are overloading the market with them?).
They will be 1mil+ 3 weeks into f2p and 2mil+ after a month

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@mrgoibniu

Incorrect: they cost 198 TP. Players can SELL them for whatever price they want, and are currently worth 200-500k on the market. But the way tokens come into existence is through 198 TP.

Every token in existence was 198 TP originally. In other words, all the in-game money flows from free players to people who pay real money. That’s the problem. I mean, unless you don’t care about people with real money having such absurd control over the economy of the game.

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I agree. Tokens should be untradable. I’m always against these tradable subscription games. If you don’t have money in real life, too bad. You just don’t get the benefits. We have to make sure this in-game economy remains 100% stable. You can always just go pick up some quick silver from RMT if you’re a few bucks short of a token anyways. There’s really no problem.

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@Hilsun, I’m not sure if I’ll be able to make my point across to you because people like you (and myself, that’s why I know) who write endless walls of text in some game forum debate are usually pretty resistant to any argument to change their mind. But well, I’ll try.

I don’t know your definition of a “P2W” game, but my own would be: “a game where paying will give you an overwhelming advantage on free players that they can’t realistically overcome”.

The token does give benefits to those who buy it. However, you’ll agree with me that since a free player can obtain one, those benefit, whatever they are, don’t make the game P2W.

So your main argument is that a paying player can save himself silver by buying one with TP, and/or buy one with real money and sell it on the auction house to gain silver. The final effect is the same: gaining a silver advantage on a free player.
This is certainly true, but it still doesn’t make this game P2W, because the advantage of one token to silver conversion is truly marginal. First, current price on token is 400k silver, and if you are familiar with the game, you’d know that you can get that much in a few hours with a high level character. You’ll probably argue that with F2P the price will rise because of increased demand, and that too is a point that I concede. However, I think you may be overestimating that price increase; I doubt token price, once stabilized, will even reach 2 millions silver, which you can still make in just one-two days. Second, you may say that a paying player is not limited to one token sale. He could take the full whale route and sell a lot of tokens on the market. The point is, because of how demand and offer works, the more these whales sell tokens the more the item itself will lose value. The more a player pays the less return he gets, it’s P2F (Pay to Fail) rather than P2W. But probably there are some players who won’t care and burn their real money like crazy to get even the smallest silver advantage they can muster. However, that brings about my third point: silver alone isn’t an absolute advantage. It is powerful, but not absolute. End game gear is untradeable, meaning you won’t be able to acquire it no matter how much silver you have. There is a limit on attributes, however high, and no amout of silver can surpass it, which means a determined free player can catch up. And silver can’t make up forever for poor player skills, unlike in some real P2W games.

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Enough to hear pay2win each update

I fail to understand how F2P players feel entitled to complain.
In my understanding, games are products that you have to pay for just like any other products or services.
Sometimes they can be Free to use but for the sake of runnig a free service, money has to come from somewhere or someone. If there are no advantages to pay then there will be no need to pay. In Tree of Savior, everything can be acquired with little effort if you don’t pay a dime! Even more there is a possibility for F2P to acquire premium services by purchasing the Token from paying users so there is basically no P2W in this game as everything is obtainable trough silver!
So P2P players get silver in exchange allowing F2P player acquire premium advantages.
That is the same as paying for a meal at a restaurant or offering to do the dishes for one hour in exchange of a meal since you have no money to pay for it. The person who paid get to eat instantly and leave without touching the dishes and the person who did not have the money to pay can still enjoy that same meal but will have to put so work to get it and will only do so after an hour. That my friends is how life works anything could be acquired without money but it can be a lot more time consuming and harder.
TL:DR Suck it up and buy a token with silver or Money, problem solved!

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Think about this for a second,
It costs about what? 15-19 dollars for a token iirc?

Now silver farmer’s sell silver for what? 100k for a dollar?

There in lies the dilemma; current cost of Token? 200-500k = 2 to 5 dollars.

See where I’m going with this?