Tree of Savior Forum

Tokens -> Immediate Attributes? You mean Pay2Win?

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#1

Seriously. As much as I disliked the time sink required for attributes, the fact that you can just buy up a token and immediately have a bunch of attributes is really really messed up.

If it was like that for EVERYONE as in, everyone has the time lag, or everyone has immediate attributes, that’s not so bad.

But by purchasing a token you can have a massive jump lead in power in less than a few minutes is really, really messed up.

One of the main game community killers are pay2win instances like this. Because it literally translates that buying a token = instant %boosts to damage to your skills.

Yes one can argue that the silver does act as a limiting cap, but only for so long and only so much. But if you have a million silver, purchase a token, then immediately use all of it on attributes, and suddenly have a massive boost in power over your friends? That’s a pay2win system.

edit: A fantastic point was brought up: Tokens, while purchasable through silver, are only introduced into the system via someone, somewhere, out there purchasing it for 198 TP, or about $12.99. Yet, it’s capable of being sold for 200-500k.

It’s an item that, when purchased for the purposes of being sold, introduces a 500k item into the market.

So you can say that for $12.99, you can get 500k silver(and let’s not kid ourselves it’s going to increase in price). It’s a real money item capable of being sold for silver.

A real money item. That can be sold for in game currency.

How many games have that, f2p or not?

12 Likes
#2

No its not. Its a time saving system. your friends can get the same boosts with the same amount of silver.

P2W implies that they can get something you can’t that makes them better.

34 Likes
#3

Its not pay to win. Even if you have learned your attributes immediately, the only problem here would be silver.

If someone has a million, its not really a big deal. High level players made an effort to gained those silvers. Unless they are botters then that is a different topic. For now, lets discuss about the Immediate Attributes.

4 Likes
#4

Why not just get rid of token benefits all together since people are going to find the most ridiculous things to complain about and label this game p2w, which it clearly isn’t. First of all, a million silver is not a huge power spike, unless they level a damage attribute for a skill or two from 0-40% at once. Then again, damage attributes usually don’t have a timer so you can do the same. I haven’t noticed a huge power difference between me and a token player yet, game feels equal to both free and premiums so far (lvl 145)

7 Likes
#5

I think this is the first time I’ve agreed with you on something :stuck_out_tongue: But yeah, people often dont know the difference between pay for convenience vs pay 2 win.

#6

They’re paying for a time advantage.
Time is something they are getting that others can’t.
Also if they are rich enough to spam buy tokens to sell (or use a gold seller), they can also easily max everything out on a level 10 character.

It’s not like they get decreased training time, they get none. They can max things out in a couple of seconds, gain a huge advantage over everyone else until the next rank where they repeat the process.

It’s pretty much they have max level armour, attribute enhancements which people don’t get until quite far in the game. And they have it, at start of the game. There’s something seriously wrong there.

For example,
You can max out gungho or concentrate by using Team Storage to xfer over your expensive items to sell. People who normally train attributes as they play gets gungho or concentrate at maybe around level 100.
For the first hundred levels, you get extra attack advantage over anyone else. It will most likely make KS-ing others easier, competing quest spots easier and other things.

1 Like
#7

Awful excuse MOST features in f2p games that cost money are convenience things like this one that save time.

Irrelevant they will already have collections that make them far superior to a new player. Aka they are rewarded for the work they did on their main and that is fine. Nothing unusual or pay to win about that. And if they buy tokens to get the silver to do attributes at the start, GOOD. They are paying so the free players are allowed to play for free at all.

4 Likes
#8

Pretty sure all they offer is pay for EACH speed up (clash of clans) or some minor exp boost for 1 hour.

This is instant for like, a whole month. Even if it is paying for convenience, isn’t it taking things too far?

#9

No they are still on the same limits as everyone else for max Attribute lvls.

If you consider people being able to buy tokens and sell them for silver to the them early pay to win. Then by extension your proposing we remove the ability to sell tokens for silver, which means free players can’t have them.

#10

In the first place, the economy is far from stable without the pure F2P people. Pricing of tokens are sure to rise later on.

I played through my first character without token (as i was overseas) and I didn’t buy any pots or anything from market. Just 100 bonfires at the start. Did my questing as usual, grinding 500 hanamings and panto horns. Continue saving money. Sell my equips to NPC.

And all i had was only 300k+ silver when i reached fendiman. When i last checked 2 days ago, Tokens were sold at 390k silver in Klaipeda server. (about 4 dungeon runs of level 50, i think it was all Talt)

EDIT:
But during the time i was playing the character, tokens were 500k each.

1 Like
#11

What the. How did you have so little at fendiman. My cleric -> diev had 800k when i got there and thats with me buying attributes and regents and missing pieces from collections. I also recently made a alt (a archer) who has 700k and is only lvl 70.

Edit to be fair my alt actually has like 680k not quite 700 but almost.

#12

Its mostly the lower level attributes, and some higher level one (with only 1-5 levels and they max) that have a time duration required.
Most attributes, including the powerful ones that level up to 100, are already instant.

But if you instead sell your items on the market, you could earn a lot more silver. Even with a single slot and 30% tax.

In addition to that, at higher level (after Fedimian, and around level 145 again) the speed at which you can get silver from monsters increases a lot.

#13

When you take the time to think about what skills this change is affecting, it’s really not that much of a difference.
The only actual big bonus we(token users) get out of this is that maxing equip mastery is alot easier.

#14

I guess you don’t visit the lower channels in Klaipeda, there is something that already does this, its called pardoners.

#15

% damage attributes are already instant.

20 Likes
#16

People complain about it without even check whats going on. Biggest part of damage attributes are already instant, even for no-token users.

Of course there will be some benefits, thats the point, but nothing realy big is going to change.

#17

Hey guys a paid feature is not p2w just because it only offer slight advantage am I right?

#18

i don’t remember a skill of % damage being “timed” most “increase 1% per attribute level are instantly” the ones that give a 2nd effect and so are timed xDD but meh not that big deal man xDD, people are making a storm in a cup of water.

P2W feature would be “Get more skills” or the Costumes give extra damage, can be scrolled, that would be p2w, get weapons that deal tons of damage and are untradeable, that’s p2w not this case

#19

This is just dumb.

  1. Silver has always and will always be the limiting factor on attributes.

  2. The most important attributes - skill enhancements - are already learned instantly by EVERYONE.

Please, play the game before making stupid statements like this.

16 Likes
#20

Ahaha Token FTW, i think most players will shock again and again after IMC making tweaks…
OP already shaking and roll over the bed for this changed…