Tree of Savior Forum

Tokens -> Immediate Attributes? You mean Pay2Win?

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#61

Since you and @jerickoh seem to have missed this somehow. [quote=“Hilsun, post:47, topic:216652”]
the majority of silver is obtained through efficient market place usage with decent items, and this is one of my biggest issues with the tokens. A token user currently gets 4 extra slots in the market (soon to be 9) and makes roughly 20% more per sale than a non-token user. Mix this with the ability to enter dungeons more often if you use a token, which gives you more chances at better gear, and you’re creating a significant rift between token users and non-token users.

The higher tax alone makes it obviously unfair, but ability to put 5 items at a time (soon to be 10!) as opposed to 1 is the real killer for non-token users, because it means they have to make sure they put items in the market that will sell quickly if they want to profit at a reasonable rate, then check the market place far more often to see whether it sold so they can put up the next item in the market–it’s dumb, it’s unnecessary, and it severely gimps non-token users from making silver even if they were lucky enough to find rare drops.
[/quote]

But nah, the only difference is attribute-learning time amirite.

#62

Yes i am neglecting the other benefits.But this thread seems to be about the change in learning attributes for token users.

I dont get why people are not getting this.

I am not really sure why people are pushing this game to have equality between paying and non-paying users when they’ve already announced that this game will be F2P. And this, being a very anticipated game, expects a lot of free users compared to paying ones.

#63

Average people got the IQ and the reading/attention span of a monkey, no wonder most here won’t fully grasp your elaborate and sharply pertinent arguments.

Still, they are kinda right in the sense that if you don’t incentivize the regular player with P2W(conveniance) features, the game will just die. Unfortunatly that’s how the human nature is, people love their priviledges but hate other people ones :wink:

The paradox that everyone seems to hate P2W yet they love to play on all these games that blantantly are just proves it, to the point the whole buisness model tends to P2W games.

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#64

And how many you can learn at once

1 without a token
2 with it

#65

The strangest part to me is the people who actually don’t have privileges, but justify those who do by saying “they earned it” or some other BS. It’s like middle- and lower-class republicans in America who still try to say trickle-down economics works. WHY?

#66

So, are you saying people that don’t invest time nor money deserve the same reward as someone who invest time and/or money?

I don’t get it… it would be like paying someone in real life for doing absolutetly nothing…

#67

Because they simply don’t know better et never questionned what they were taught, and most people here were endoctrinated since birth by the american dream dogmatism.

#68

Many people who are against items like tokens don’t consider/realize that developing and maintaining a game, servers and paying staff costs money.
Game companies don’t survive and pay the bills by working for free and feeding on happy thoughts.

#69

Silver platters, all around!:heart_eyes:

Edit: seriously though, f2p’s should be able to take things with alitle salt.

Nothing considered “p2w” here is so incredibly gamebreaking that f2p is forever stuck never being able to be in contest for anything.

Well, except for Tokens i guess, not in a snese what benefits a palyer gets for using one, its rather a matter of those selling tokens for alot of silver to easily gear up. I am against heavy p2w and selling tokens for silver is the worse p2w ToS has to offer atm (entirely my opinion)

If i got to decide, tokens would forever be untradable jsut to avoid getting tons of silver for throwing money at the game.

But wait, what happens if they were untradable, while removing the p2w, the free players has Zero chances obtaining any token at all.

People would QQ omg p2w regardless.
Now people has a chance to actually work hard to get their hands on tokens as a full f2p player.

Meanwhile the other player sells tokens, makes alts, sells more tokens, thats alot of silver gain for selling tokens. That, is p2w comparing to anything else.

Meanwhile.
QQ Instant attributes
QQ 30 atk/def mount
QQ Team storage
QQ 1 more dungeon/mission run

Wheres the “QQ people gets too much silver selling tokens.”

#70

I think all these weebs that are complaing about P2W are the one’s that don’t have a job or still a student or poor. Not to be mean but don’t expect fair treatment in a world that revolves around money.

but it’s not P2W

#71

Hello, I work for the Department of Materials Science and Engineering at MIT as an administrative assistant and communications coordinator. But please, continue telling me I’m not talking about moral injustices, but am speaking from a selfish desire to personally be able to afford to win.

Also continue to make fallacious arguments that add literally nothing to the conversations, but only sate your desire to fit into the mold established by this thread that people generally disagree with the OP by throwing out generalized insults about people you know nothing about.

#72

exactly. If they play a free game they should expect situations like this. Where is the company gonna get money to maintain the server, to fix the bugs and issues that THEY also complain about considering they dont pay. @_@

this is why i’m against F2P, so many whiny kids complaining as if they help the game @_@

If only IMC would implement a top-up system where you buy the hours to play this game.

#73

I don’t understand the close-mindedness of people in this matter. I can only assume that you guys never actually played a game with a p2w market.

When it’s all said and done, token can be bought by regular players, granted it requires a little more time and effort on their part.

Also, majority of the players aren’t even American, so I’ll have to say no to that “indoctrinated American mindset” response someone left here.

#74

Learning attributes is gated by silvers, therefore not P2W. Time is irrelevant if your silvers can’t keep up in the first place. And if you do have tons of silvers, I don’t see a reason to not get yourself a token to get this benefit.

And yes, people who say stuff like these have never really played a real P2W game yet.

#75

They obviously want the company to become a charity. If people pay to play the game they should only receive a “thank you” card instead of benefits. WHICH HAS NO REAL EFFECT ON HOW PEOPLE PLAY THE GAME. You don’t even need to touch the freaking market if you don’t want to.

Because obviously paying for convenience and some extra benefits in an online GAME is obviously a bad thing, and that it reflects how bad people with money are in real life.

I reached 200 on a non-token’d character and out DPS token users, obviously with their token they should be out DPSing me, right? right?

#76

What is pay 2 win and when it is not? It is only pay 2 win when you have to pay real money to actually get good in the game which in this case is not because token itself is buyable through in game currency. It means players like me dont actually need to pay real money and at this point, since i bought the lowest founders pack i have no plan to pay again just to get a token that i can afford again anytime. So token itself is not pay to win. Your argument about rich players buying more token and selling it logic is just too sad. In any game regardless of publisher making a game p2w or not, a player that can spend money will get advantage because RMT exist and its not hard to do without getting caught. I am not promoting it, just stating a fact. So lets make an example.

Imagine that people can only get the convenience of no waiting time for learning attributes by paying silver. So yes no need to spend money IRL right? No pay2win because you dont need to pay and the company doesn’t earn from it. But lets be real, what does someone who can afford to buy and can’t use real life money to get the convenience in game will do? Some of them will spend money to afford it in other sources, in the end rich player who can afford and willing to spend get the advatage. It’s just a matter of making it legal and illegal and in your logic every game where rich get advantage by paying money is pay 2 win. So when it is pay 2 win?

And yes before you get lost again, I will remind you about our point, Token itself is not pay to win, you dont need to pay Real money to get it. And there are tons of way for non casual to afford it. Now if you are casual and do not want to pay and still want to win, i have a bad news for you.

Eitherway, If anything, you can call a single feature, game breaking because that feature is too convenient. Buy it doesnt make the game pay to win, as long that you can afford the feature by playing too. Thats the difference.

#77

Except that irl cash translates directly to silver. Therefore your argument is invalid.

#78

oh so where is this feature of the game that converts cash to silver? where? pretty sure it’s the gold sellers not the game and not IMC.

“I don’t want to believe, I want to know.”

#79

So the only source of silvers is only IRL cash?

JFC.

#80

Simple answer, Tokens and RMT goldsellers.

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