Tree of Savior Forum

The biggest problem with modern MMOs

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#61

Because the following statement is false:

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#62

If thats the case, why is it so common to see people compare ToS with RO?

Edit: Let ToS be ToS, ToS is still new comparing to RO.

#63

Ragnarok got destroyed by horrible localizations and even worse updates. It was totally fine until about valkyrie patch imho. Then it got worse.

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#64

Comparing to RO =/= Wanting it to be 100% the same.
You’ll see people also compare to World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, and even League of Legends and Runescape. That doesn’t mean they want to game to be exactly that

#65

Refer to OP’s post, comparing the pros and cons between 2 games with different timespans.

Comparing these two games is not fair at all.

I do admit i made some bad choice of words in my first post here, but i think it’s still wrong to compare 10+ years old games with a new one.
Runescape? even older, wow? old too, League is a MOBA, wrong genre.

Edit: replied to wrong name zzzz

#66

Exactly my point. People draw comparisons to everywhere, even to real life. Doesn’t mean that people want it to be exactly like that.

As for the OP, he is simply making a list (a bit of an unbalanced and unfair list) to demonstrate that there is not too much to do in ToS compared to other more sandbox-y MMORPGs, like RO

#67

When Ragnarok was released, for me atleast, everything was brand new. There was no optimal builds, no optimal leveling routes nor optimal end-game gears, it was up to you to build the way you wanted and possibly regretting the choice later on (:stuck_out_tongue:). The concept of adventure was put way more into credit than it is right now.
In my opinion that time no longer exists, some people are more available to play the game (24-7) and rush the contents on, but they do not want to waste their times, they want to reach the end-game and fast, which pretty much caused most MMORPGs to become brainless quest grinding experiences until level cap with some interesting feature later on.
I think you are able to relate what I mentioned to the current MMORPGs.

ToS is a single step out of this concept, though not being much I actually enjoy the difference, this game has potential.

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#68

No, the card system on Ro was terrible. Around 1000 mobs and only 50-55 cards were useful. How is that even a good system? lol

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#69

1/10’000 to be precise. And it was fine. You could get rich without any rare drop and the rare drops were like lotto. You had a dream. And it could be fulfilled.
It actually made you really happy if you found a good card. :slight_smile:
And now you do the quest, collect the mats and have your ‘rare’ item - wow!
Especially for new players that found high demand cards like Drops.

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#70

Not necessarily, those other things just have to be something more engaging than grinding. Grinding is practically done on auto pilot for a lot of people, myself included. The 600% exp bonus for pick up groups mean players catch dungeon parties like they would taxi cabs. They don’t have to be mandatory things to do, just options that people who want to slow down, chat a bit, and still feel like they’re progressing can do. If you aren’t trying to hit the 280 cap in ToS, you’re not really getting anywhere. Crafting would have been one such side option, had ToS received an more in depth system than what we have.

This leaves…role playing, I guess? The only real way to make your own fun in a game this linear and it isn’t something that is easy to pull new people into if they don’t already have an interest in it.

But yes, the sense of belonging comes from other players. It’s just a shame this new breed of MMO player is too socially retarded to make it happen. How many people have you seen join “friendly” guilds and never interact with their own guildmates? Quite a few, I bet. Some of the currently forming ToS guilds probably have them in droves already.

#71

I think it’s less of them being ‘socially retarded’ and more of…well, I can think of a few reasons:

  1. Wanting to have a ‘purpose’ at all time. - It’s a bit troubling but many kids these days lack any ‘goal’ they want to pursue, so in games they want to just be given ‘something’ to do. It does have the effect of making them even less socially active…

  2. Want to be ‘rewarded’ - They don’t consider any ‘mundane’ actions worth while, if they’re going to do something they want to have it be ‘rewarding’ (daily quests that make that particular action worth ‘more’ than without)

  3. http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/1775 this…

  4. They’re just…not good at interacting with others, due to low self-esteem or such issues that cause them to escape to games to begin with (not saying everyone is like that, but I’m sure there’s some people coming into games with that sort of wanting to be accepted but at the same time also doesn’t know how to start a conversation)

I know games have that power fantasy setting most of the time, but the current way might’ve pushed it too far…

#72

Yeah, socially retarded. As mean as it sounds, that’s pretty much the textbook definition.

Different strokes, I guess. I really wish ToS had an in depth crafting system. There is plenty of purpose, a great deal of social value and a ton of reward from being a high level crafter. Even for shy people, it creates a playing field in which other people approach you first. Max level grinders are a dime a dozen and ToS is already reducing each player to the class combination they’ve chosen. 80 supposed classes and yet the holy trinity of tank/support/dps still exists. What is left at the cap when there are no more enemies to fight?

#73

Try to stay away from that mentality because that sounds more selfish then good think about it because you must follow the core rule of everything in the world and that is where there is a positive there is a direct negative from what your saying is your trying to make a more direct way of becoming a elitist class this is a MMORPG revealing content to a select number is bad…

#74

Okey first problem with what your posting CookyKim your making trying to make a comparable point yet your justifying your comparisent to a game at a point where it did not launch let me explain to you the things you mention that are not true.

When Ro launched it did not have the following.

As many cards as now
As many equipment’s/enchantments
No advance elu/ori just regular stuff where the + went to 10 not 15
only black smith no alchemist or transcended classis
no real quest only a few hidden ones it was mostly grind
no dungeons at all
No craft consumables
Boss fights was different they did not have ability’s
No pvp other then some rare xmas events.
Party’s had a share lv range of 10
guilds was very basic and more of a community aspect then anything
No guild events unless it was player generated
No instanced dungeon
No WOE

So your new list is like this.

In RO you could:

  • Grind for xp
  • Grind for zeny
  • Grind for consumables
  • Grind for equipment
  • Grind for enchantments (cards)
  • Grind for equipment enhancement (elu/ori)
  • Grind for crafting mats (olny if your a blacksmith)
  • Do a class change quest (actually involved quests)
  • Fight a boss
  • Form a party (it took real time)
  • Form a guild
  • Help a new player
  • Help a new player more
  • Discover new items
  • Discover new builds
  • Discover new places

There seems to be more content in TOS then RO at launch by the looks of things in future when you do a comparison try to do research rather then comparing a current game that has development of being out for a number of years to a game that does not even come out for another 4 days.

#75

The only solution is to induce amnesia to only particular memories that are related to MMORPGs. That way, you can play a fresh game.

#76

or simply don’t compare it to another game and treat it as something new this is TOS that was RO they might show similarity’s but in there respected universes they are completely different.

Problem with most gamers of nowadays they compare everything to everything to justify the best in the end makes them become jaded in there choice’s I was during the era of the console wars where Mario and sonic was rivals (still are) but when we looked at the icons and that was it.

It was never well in sonic the platforming is better it was more well sonic could beat Mario any day in a race or Mario is way better then sonic.

#77

While it is true RO had many years to have its content developed and ToS is not even released yet, it doesn’t diminish the fact that ToS right now has fairly limited content. Whether it is fair to compare a game refined over 10 years vs a game that hasn’t released is up to individual opinion. In the very same manner i could argue that ToS had 10 years to learn from many other MMOs and should be expected to perform much better.

Comparison is inevitable. We base all our judgements on prior experiences.

Regardless, I did not start this thread with the intention of doing a comparison thread, but to DEMONSTRATE the lack of content / things to do that ToS seems to be. Everyone (at least in the early game) will only be doing the main quest, and nothing else. I find that boring quickly. I’ve done iCBT1 & iCBT2, and the fact that it pains me to redo the quest a third time in OBT, is what I am trying to express; and hopefully get a solution going.

This is not an RO / ToS comparison thread. It’s about how ToS is BORING (in some sense of the word) and how to make it LESS BORING.

Thanks for your discussion.

#78

You do know the definition of development right?
“an event constituting a new stage in a changing situation.”

A mmo is not developed fully as a mmo is never a completed project it merely comes out of beta and remains constant and in constant development let me give you a hint mmo follow a simply formula that is based of reaction data.

First they implement a very rough design of a mechanic to the game let the players test it get the feedback data on the tested thing and expand on it till its tried and proven then add more to it.

What your purposing with half your information is adding methods used in other games such as ragnoark that use’s a very old and out of date engine that is a completely different gaming engine to TOS you do relies even if a method is the same the coding could be completely different.

This is why you don’t get all the same things from another mmo because doing that you can make horrible errors due to the coding or limit the expanding input from the developers because nothing can be added to the current method or very little at least due to limitations on the current engine.

Comparison is inevitable but that is where you must learn for yourself that the new stuff you play is not the same as the old stuff because if you cant you will become jaded and become one of those people who invade another mmo to say “this game is a copy of (mmo name) this sucks” yet I still am confused to this very day why they play another mmo if the one they said is better…

“This is not an RO / ToS comparison thread. It’s about how ToS is BORING (in some sense of the word) and how to make it LESS BORING.”

Okay you do relies how hypocritical this is right at the very beginning you made a comparison even by the core details of the game you are comparing it to RO just by mentioning RO as a foundation to your topic also saying something is boring is up to the user not justified by your own view lets use a standard mmo trope you have healers/dps/tanks a number of people will find some boring and others fun due to there play style and tastes.

The thing I must say to you personally why do you play computer games?

My reason is because I find them enjoyable and I like to enjoy finding the path travailed by the least in other words I enjoy playing unpopular classis and proving people wrong about the class its called the underdog mentality.

#79

bless this gif

dayum

#80

Ok good for you.

/20 char.