Not for summons. If Sorc/Necro/Summoning is the main part of your build, you don’t need Thaum3. If you just throw a rank of Sorc as filler in and your build is mainly supposed to fill a different role, then Thaum3 is usually a good idea, especially when combined with Linker and the like.
Thanks for helping. i’m going full summon, so i will delay thau3 for now
Quite frankly, you might want to consider only going Thaum1 then. The Thaum2 attribute is only for defense and that’s not worth a full rank. I’m not sure what else you have in your build - I would assume Necro3 and Sorc2 for full summoner - so you could put in many different things there instead. Linker and Cryo are both really good choices; I would even value Cryo2’s little Subzero Shield more than the Thaum2 attribute for getting your survival up. Linker1 can also be of really, really good use; it’s not many Joint Penalty targets but can still make a difference.
Also, just in case you don’t have Sorc2 in your build because you don’t like riding: Sorc2 woud offer 10% more to attack and defense of your main summon/Salamion if invested that way, which is superior to Thaum2’s attribute. Sure, Thaum affects all summons - including Necro-summons - but the thing is that defense is usually really not needed. I don’t think I ever had my “big” summon die, Shoggoth always survives so long that my corpse count is never really affected, the Skeletons and Salamion need to be resummoned after five minutes anyway and usually don’t die unless a boss is horrid and then they are easily resummoned. It’s not like you run out of SP or anything.
So yeah, honestly, Thaum1 is justified - though I personally think it’s still not worth even that rank; your summon-damage can be much more boosted with Linker (especially if the difference is Linker2 to Linker3), survivability with Cryo, even RC could have some use (I am not quite there yet, currently making a summoner-RC-build) with its magic defense debuff. Most people I know who tried a Thaum1 summoner said that it’s good, but not overwhelming; it’s a bit more base damage for a lot less survivability/utility.
Of course, if you plan on going farming with the character and want Thaum for that purpose, ignore everything I said. It’s just that for the plan of “summoner”, Thaum1 is a good-but-not-overwhelming choice. For the plan “farming”, Thaum is amazing.
In cause you want Thau1, maybe you can try going Pyr2. I went Wiz1>Pyro2>Thau1>Sorc2>Nec3. Fire pillar is good CC since it groups mobs closer to each other, whereas frost tree might freeze mobs that are spread out too much. I use flame ground as well to trigger and lure mobs (also for some DPS), and fire wall. The damage from Pyro2 might not be high, but all these fire skills serves to keep me occupied as my summons take down the mobs. Since Pyro2 is only needed, you save use the 4th rank for Thau1.
Wiz2>Link2>Sorc2>Nec3 is also a good option. Link mobs and get your summons to take them down. However, it might be a bit boring since you do not really have any offensive skills to play with except for magic missile and spirit shock.
I was considering a build similar to that Wiz1->Pyro2>Thau1->Sorc2-?? and then i am unsure, i have a W2-L3-S1-N3 so i don’t want a 2nd necro, and i have a frosterlord card to use since the Necro is using templeshooter.
I have been considering:
Sorc2->R1->Onmyoji2 or Sage2
or Sorc2->FF3
Has anyone done any of these builds? My char is actually still sitting after last free reset from Wizard patch, was playing Necro.
sorc3 worth get guys??
nop, waste of rank =D
If you “REAAAAALLLLLYYYYY” like summon riding…
You can go Wiz1-X-X-Thauma3-Sorc3…
With that you can buff with thauma, then jump on summon until you either need pots of HP or need to rebuff with thauma…
Its not “optimal DPS”, but it synergy well overall, and its still useful for CM with thauma3 full SPR…
i’ll repeat myself from reddit
don’t go sorc3… ever… unless it is reworked in some future to be a good circle. For a summoning oriented build it’s a waste of the rank where you can get something else which will have much more synergy.
example build (the one i use on my main char):
wiz3-thaum1-sorc2-ff1-sm2 full SPR
weapon transcendence is good yeah, but you also want some burst damage yourself imo
to explain the build:
wiz3 for strike attribute of Lethargy (use either marnox summon or necroventer, both have good damage on bosses). also magic missile with Swell Left Arm will have 2x missiles on single target.
thaum1 Swell Left Arm with Summon Damage attribute for 10% boost (also with high SPR and enchance attribute you will get some good matk boost)
sorc2 core if you want to main sorc. you may go sorc1 only if you have marnox and want to tailor the rest of the ranks to your liking, but imo sorc2 for riding and better summon control is pretty good. when riding, the best damaging summon is Froster Lord atm. low cooldowns and decent aoe with skills that hit 10 times. but vs bosses you dismount and use either marnox or necroventer (strike damage fast auto-attack) while using your SM2 skills. also go full SPR as it increases summon damage by a big amount (compared to INT increasing your matk not as much)
FF1 - debuffs the target with hexing (increase dark damage by 50%) use either Bone Pointing (reliable vs. single target, hits repeatedly and curses for 7 sec or so, basically if inly one target in its sight, it will be cursed the whole duration of the skill) or kurdaitcha (harder to use but can curse many targets in the area tho only for like 7-8 seconds once). Additionally you get Blood Sucking which you can heal yourself with vs demon/beast/insect monsters (on 40 sec cooldown or around that time)
SM2 - very high single target damage vs grounded targets, all dark damage (so +50% on hexed enemies which you do with FF), low cooldowns, high overhit but also very SP hungry (that’s where full SPR from sorc helps a lot)
Hope that helps.
Is there any info about legendary summons allready? They do more damage or not?
this is what i have so far, couldn’t up more levels yet.
i also don’t know what is the best build possible to use the demon lord marnox, accepting suggestions.
I’m just shameless advertizing this if anyone wants to have a look and give their 2 cents on this. 
Thanks for sharing! But believe or not stats from grimoire do not play huge role in how the summon performs (maybe except HP)
Did you check the actual damage it is dealing? I have a feeling it’s the same as normal Marnox (checked on tos.neet and SFR for the skills is the same).
So is there even a reason to hunt for legendary one if it is only visuals?
Also a suggestion, you can try to morph normal 10 star marnie to a legendary one and check if there is any difference (morph should give 10 stars to legend i think same as it works on normal cards).
I have legendary Helgasercle since a few hours and her stats at 3* compare to 10* normal Helga basically in the same way as the Marnox shown above.
However, shiny!Helga is not just shiny, she is also bigger and with bigger Helga comes a bigger AoE range in her skills. It’s not a super-huge amount, but it is noticeable overall. I tried to gauge how much it is, but it’s hard to tell since positioning yourself in the exact same spot with two differently-sized summons is a bit hard. From what I’ve seen I’d say that her huge AoE skill (D-button) extends by almost a heal tile’s width and as it’s a circle, it does that all around. It’s something. And I do expect her stats to be better on higher *-Level, but getting there will be a challenge. Still, I love Helga and will get there… hopefully.
Apologies for the somewhat vague post last night; it was really late for me.
Here’s some screenshots to give you more details.
a) Helgasercle stat comparision (10 star normal to 3 star legendary)
b) AoE Attack Range
Just in case it isn’t clear from the screenshot already (you can see the circle extending below the skillbar far more on the legendary), I made a line from one end of “normal” Helga’s circle to the other and then copied that line and put it on legendary Helga to show the difference.
As for the damage, I’m still looking into that as I’ve worked only with Morph so far.
As Helga’s AA already has insane range and she runs up to the enemies, it’s pretty difficult to tell if the attack range for her auto attack increased as well. Even normal!Helga hits things far outside of what looks to be her range, so I have zero idea how to measure that.
The size difference can be a bit of an issue when riding, by the way - shiny!Helga likes to get stuck on the stupid entrances in the level 300 dungeon 
(It’s just me being bad, though, Helga is awesome.)
2 Likes
Okay, here is the result of my damage experiments, continuing the tests from above. The results are pretty weird.
If there is anything else you want tested, let me know.
c) Helgasercle damage comparision
First, normal 10* Helga
We see fluctuating damage, but never dipping below 40k in any way or form.
Second, Legendary 3* Helga, summoned directly
There are hits quite a bit below 40k and she doesn’t reach the damage output of normal Helga on the upper levels. So far, this was expected.
Third, 3* Legendary Helgasercle morphed from 10* Normal Helgasercle
We stay basically in the directly-summoned range. I have tried this several times, just like I tested normal Helga several times. Normal Helga does not dip below 40k, ever, while Legendary Helga does no matter if I summon directly or put her in the second slot and use Morph. This seems to show that Morph does NOT work to carry over stats, despite the fact that both Helgas DO share cooldowns on the skills. I cannot use Morph to reset the skill cooldown, despite the stats not carrying over.
This honestly sucks a lot and I dunno if it’s intended or not. 
Any ideas/thoughts?
2 Likes
thanks a lot for testing. another question is visual aoe matching the effective one, like could be visual just got bigger with the model size, but there is a chance that effective hitbox is the same. could you please check it somehow (highlander dummies in lemprasa for instance, as being immobile and easier to confirm that)?
Oooh, that is a good idea! Let me see what I can do - it might take a bit of experimenting on finding the range possible since, from my experience, the range is a bit outside of the circle as well. With the long cooldown of the skill, it might take a few minutes to get this done.
I admit I never really checked if visual is different from actual area since I am both Necro and Linker so the rest of my minions usually also clobber everything and I usually use Helga’s AoE, jump down before the hits trigger and use Joint Penalty so that everything gets hit anyway, even if it is outside of the range. Sorry for not considering that there might be a difference.
Give me a bit, I’ll hop over to Lemprasa right away.
Use oracle’s forecast to see area of attack for skills. I believe the skill scrolls can be bought from auction house.
After using your primary helga’s skill and morphing, the cd’s should reset. It may be blacked out and counting down but just press it anyway and it should still do the skill?
Found some scrolls.
Also you were right, it was just my keyboard being wonky before (it’s garbage), I can use the skill despite the countdown being shown. At least that works.
As for the Forecast stuff… nothing makes sense anymore.
I used Photoshop to put the projected areas on top of each other.
Normal Helga: Green
Legendary Helga: The other color
Auto Attack:
Big AoE:
Yeah, Forecast says that normal Helga has for both the normal attack and the big AoE a slightly bigger range than legendary Helga. Which does not match the data from the first experiment or make any sense at all whatsoever because if anything, it should be the same.
The second skill (S-Button), by the way, does not have a projected area or I would have done that as well.
So what can we make out of this?
Honestly, given the small ranges we are talking about here in both experiments, I would say that the AoE range is either the same or there’s some slight variable which is neglectable. I trust what actually hits more than a projected area, so I would still say that maaaaaybe legendary Helga has a very slight range increase in the end, but that might be an error. At any rate, visual and actual range are NOT related at all.
So what is the conclusion so far?
Unless someone has the millions to upgrade a legendary card further than 3* to see if/when the stats surpass the 10* normal card, there’s zero reason to buy a legendary card for summoning. If you get one and want to use it, that’s cool, but selling everything you own for one like I did is definitely not worth it unless you are a diehard fan of that summon and just want the legendary card because it’s shiny and bigger and more colorful.
(I’m still not regretting anything, though. I love legendary Helga, even if she’s not worth the 500+ mil I spent.)
However, testing is not done yet.
I have bought the legendary Helga at 3, so I have no idea of her stats at 1 and 2*, which is regrettable. However, I will - with the last money I own 
- buy another normal Helgasercle and get that one to 3* and see how the difference of 3* normal Helga to 3* legendary Helga is to maybe make a guess at which level legendary Helga will surpass normal Helga in stats.
Stay tuned for more Helga in a few minutes!