Tree of Savior Forum

Sorcerer Rework Ideas :satisfaction:

Suggestions Game
#1

Ok so Sorcerer is my favourite class and while it definitely has its place in the game and is totally usable class, some aspects of it are very lacking. Mostly third circle of sorcerer is at a really bad place and almost any other circle is better for you character. That alone warrants a rework.

So this reworks focus will definitely be more on c3 skills. But I have no intention on making sorc1 or sorc2 less appealing for players and I will suggest quite big changes for the entire tree. Another focus I have for this suggestion is to further provide synergies with other classes in the wizard tree.

This suggestion does not focus at all on boss summon balances or summoning skill itself.

Sorcerer C1

Summoning:

No changes.

Summon Familiar:

New Attribute. Fire Bats/Lightning Bats/Dark Bats(placeholder names): New attribute for each enchantment in wizard tree. Only one of these attributes can be toggled on at the same time. Each attribute causes the bats to have another damage line from the enchantment and will change the attribute of bats into the element. This is to help the player choose which element bats they want to summon when in party multiple enchantments may be present. (Bats are already Dark type but enchant darkness will give each bat additional dark line.)
This needs editing but I feel lazy sorry.

2OH, which is why it should be change to no longer able to be copied by sage micro dimension attribute. This is to prevent even more bats with the additional OH to save people from crashes. Bat copying also doesnā€™t really pose any significant reason to exist in this game currently so another OH will provide those players who want more bats better.)

New! Desmodus: (WIP)

Moved from Circle 3 to circle one.

New attributes.
Iā€™m leaving this open for changes for now.

4OH
3 or 4 or 5 I think it needs more OHā€™s and some attributes to make it a bit more interesting.

Salamion: Removed!

New! Enchant Darkness:

Enchant Dark property, works in a similar manner to enchant fire, only for personal use. Able to make scrolls by enchanter. Scales similarly to enchanter fire/lightning with Spr:Int 1:1.

Summon Servant:

Level 4 and 5 buffs removed. Max lv3. The removed buffs have absurdly low values so this is hardly a nerf, with the current state of the game the first 2 are strong enough for this skill to not really need any further changes.

Sorcerer C2

Morph: Unchanged.

Riding:

Reduced cast time on boarding summon and getting off summon.

Attack Ground: Removed.

Hold:

New attribute: Warped Summon (placeholder name) Teleports summoned stationary bosses to a selected place by hold. Perhaps the biggest issue of stationary bosses is to be left behind with this new attribute it gives more situations and freedom to use these bosses as they please while still keeping the stationary nature.

New! Summon Servant2: (WIP)

(Skill name is placeholder.) Your favourite servant is back, but this time to debuff your enemies!
Ground target summoning, at the appointed location debuffs enemies.
This skill is still a work in progress but the general idea is to have a fun skill and get to use more of cat summon. Could debuff enemies with things like freeze, burn, blind, fear, confusion, stun, slow. Debuff would only last for couple of seconds. Debuffs would be randomized so while it would have a larger array of debuffs you wouldnā€™t know which one youā€™ll get.

New Attribute: Burn! Burn!
Requires Pyromancer Circle2: A higher chance of inflicting burn debuff. Burn lasts a couple seconds longer. (This is to help players use flare alongside this skill.)

New Attribute: Cold Shoulder.
Requires Cryomancer Circle2. A higher chance of inflicting freeze debuff.

This skill still needs a lot of work in terms of thinking target counts/radious/cooldown/duration of the summoning/number of debuffs inflicted per cast etc.
I still wanted to post this skill suggestion cause I think itā€™s a nice idea and would appreciate if Iā€™d get help from other players trying to make the idea more clear and balanced. I mean I guess I just need help figuring it out.

Class Attributes:

New attribute!: (WIP)
Expand the number of targets a summoned boss can aggro to 20~. Remove any other aggro provided by the player from any other sources, even from the character itself.

The idea behind this skill is to give more boss feel to your summon. The restriction of aggro is added so that builds who choose necro donā€™t get more aggro as they donā€™t need it and this is to solely benefit sorcerer themselves. Necro builds will still be able to generate more aggro than sorcerers with this attribute.
I originally considered to add this to c3 but I feel c2 sorcs going for non-necro builds could use this as well.

Sorcerer C3

Evocation: Reworked. (WIP)

Now summons evocation of a boss based on the second slot of grimoire. Boss summoned through evocation has higher normal attack speed and ends the summoning period in one of the boss skills. (Alternative version just uses skills randomly alongside faster attack speed.) Riding not possible.
The idea for a the skill is to have somewhat low duration like 10 seconds and go on 2 minute cooldown, times are placeholders and should be further balanced if this rework actually becomes a thing.
Evocation would scale similarly to summoning and would basically be an enraged boss with a short span of time to cause damage upon your enemies.

New! No name yet:(WIP)

A shield on your summoned boss monster. Works similarly to Genbu shield but on summon. Balance should be done in a way where this shield consumes way less sp when compared with genbu.

New attribute:

Upon riding your summon also protects the character from damage for 5 seconds. Attribute is on cooldown for 35seconds.

This skill needs more thinking and balancing. (And a name.) The basic idea comes from opening up a possibility for the summon to survive content like world bossing and velcoffer. The attribute also helps the player to use summon skills more safely but doesnā€™t allow the player to fully guard themselves by simply riding all the time.

Class Attributes:

Currently empty, thereā€™s a lot of change so further c3 attributes may not be needed, some lower circle attributes could be changed here too. Just leaving this here for people to consider suggestions to attributes as well.

Feedback:

I hope current sorcerer players will share their thoughts about this suggestion. Feel free to disagree with anything I suggest.
I also would love new suggestions to take inspiration from them and better improve my current suggestions.

If I like your suggestion enough Iā€™m open to changing suggestions on this main post or even remove some skills and/or add new ones.

If you heavily disagree with this feel free to make a better one, really I encourage you!

Changelog:

I will further edit this when I have more time. I generally plan to make things more clear and polished and easier to understand with more specific details like cooldowns and durations etc. Further changes will be also based on feedback. (If anyone even posts tho. :sad: )

If a staff happens to see this Iā€™d much rather have you bookmark this so I can work more on this before passing it along to the devs. (This is just me trying to be hopeful ok, let me have it.)

No changes yet.

Version 1.0.0 - 17.5.2018

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Sorcerer Info Megathread
#2

Reserved! (In-case I need more space.)

Also just a reminder. I donā€™t expect IMC to take all my suggestions and implement them into the game. I just want to give an idea of what kind of changes I would like to see made on the class which they can reference if they ever decide to rework this class.

If you have disagreements try elaborate more instead of just saying ā€˜ā€˜this is dumbā€™ā€™.

#3

Instead of desmodus, I would preffer a skill that allowed the summon use itā€™s special skills without riding for a short time (15 secs at max Lv.) and that consume the caster SP (the values need some thinking, but I was thinking in make it consume at least 1k SP per summon SS cast).

Aside from that, an attribute that allow the caster use normal skills at increased cost (50-100% increase in SP cost, maybe more).

Would be interesting if it summon temporary the secondary boss (canā€™t be used with 2 of the same boss card, ex: you canā€™t use it with Marnox if your main slot have a Marnox in it independent of the card being normal or legendary).

The duration could be 15-20 secs, the boss will use special skills at the caster SP by a 300% SP cost (maybe more) and the boss SS will have the same CD as a normal summon.

Sorcecer: SP Recovery should be removed and could be added a new attribute called Sorcerer: Shield Mastery - Allow the summons receive 30% of the equipped shield defense.

Or

Sorcerer: Advanced Defense - Allow summons to receive 10% of all defensive status from the caster, which include: pdef, mdef and elemental def.

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#4

This is just mi ideasā€¦ and i share some of the OP pointsā€¦

Replace summoning bats with Desmodusā€¦ plan and simpleā€¦ Bats are clunky, and can perfectly be changed with Desmo, same idea but better executionā€¦ This would be C1

Evocation changed to ā€œcastā€ a skill from the secondary card slotā€¦ default second skill, and an attribute for casting third skillā€¦ As a side idea, only for C3, just leave Evocation for second skills, and ā€œEvocation2ā€(bad with names) for third skillā€¦

Morph, Riding, attack ground, holdā€¦ should either be removed or innate of the classā€¦
Riding can be achieved the same way as you mount a petā€¦

With those changes you get a Sorc that can dish some DMG (desmo was never top notch dmg, but was decent enough), and you get to use the second card to do some interesting stuffs

#5

Iā€™m personally against this change. Iā€™m in favor for keeping summon skills available mainly by riding. The only exception Iā€™m willing to make is with the suggestion I made with evocation where itā€™s mostly limited and also separate from the main summon.

Iā€™m also against this one. Iā€™m very pleased how riding works currently and what is limited to riding.

The reason is that these changes would change the gameplay too significantly and Iā€™m not personally after such change, while one could argue my suggestion is quite vast the gameplay stays mainly the same with better supporting options to use.

I actually like this one, I might add this to the main post but Iā€™m not sure yet.

Thinking about the skill CD makes me actually prefer a lot it ending in a special skill and ā€˜ā€˜dying outā€™ā€™ after cause otherwise itā€™d be kind of a hassle. Using skills on random could be too random considering the boss wonā€™t be able to use them on cast more than once due to cdā€™s and it could result into really bad casts of the skills.

Yeah that one could be removed, but personally I donā€™t care either way, keep it or leave it doesnā€™t matter.

Iā€™d also argue against these new attributes, while they would definitely be good alternatives for the unnamed skill suggestion I made for circle3. I think the skill I suggested would cover the need of these attributes. For circle one I wouldnā€™t give such benefit and circle 2 should lack a bit more power than what c3 provides.
So if such attributes would be implemented instead Iā€™d make them exclusively c3.

I personally like bats a lot and would not want the skill removed, I donā€™t think it too clunky to be usable. I think desmodus can have a place in c1 with bats by just removing salation. (But I guess I might be biased cause I dislike salamion.)

This is something I also considered for evocation but Iā€™ve read so many people want another summon or freely used skills. So I figured why not combine them? Limited of course so it would in no way replace the main summon.
Iā€™m totally for your suggestion too, either of those for evocation would be great in my opinion.

I disagree with this cause circle one doesnā€™t need this much power, theyā€™re one pointers so I donā€™t mind too much using a point on them. Attack ground however is indeed useless. Hold is nice to just have and my attribute suggestion would really benefit stationary summons a lot.

This is definitely a direction I want to go for too, in general terms. :slight_smile: (Alongside adding some class synergies.)

#6

The boss wouldnā€™t use basic attack obviously, also, the duration was just a filler, could be longer so at least the summon could cast all of itā€™s SS, or, we could limit it to certain SS, but that would make it meaningless.

The above I actually messed up and put in Desmodus instead of Evocation.

I forgot to mention that it wouldnā€™t work with deployables like IW or channeled ones like Meteor, only instant cast like MM or HK and JP. You canā€™t also use certain skills like Levitate or Kurdaitcha.
As for the costs, I think itā€™s pretty good, could even increase more, I mean, you will be full SPR, your SP recover will be insanely high not to count that SP pots recover a good amount too.

And this one was to be Desmodus, since I inverted it with Evocation in my first post lol.

#7

Copy & Paste from old thread

Peace.

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#8

Really like your suggestion itā€™s very well thought out.

I just think that itā€™s very unlikely IMC would do this large scale rework. It would require them quite a lot of work. That is why I personally used a lot of pre-existing elements and tried to preserve as much as I could.

Your suggestion would also kill a lot of things from the current identity for sorcerer, which is why I would not at all mind if your suggestion was made into a entirely different class.

Anyways great work. :slight_smile:

1 Like
#9

Heyo, Sorcerer as well as other minion based classes are one of the best aspects of Tree of Savior. They are some of the coolest and attractive classes also have been some of the most controversial.

I love that youā€™re trying to improve synergies with Sorcerer that has limited as a very strong standalone class. Wizard has suffered with the reduction of a lot of synergies which is something our game needs along all class variants. My favorite interaction is obviously cloning bats.

What I wanna see out of minion based class is more micro/macro options. Maybe throwing in at circle 3 allowing a sorcerer to command their minion to use skills while not in riding.
Iā€™m in full agreement that circle 3 needs more attractive thematic skills. Itā€™s surprising that when using Evocation the skill would change according to what was the secondary slot.

Now this is a bit controversial but I really do think the initial design of Sorcerer was much better. Summons should be draining SP. Where at circle 2 and 3 can improve SP recovery and combat the drain. Sorcerer damage with summons should be scaling with INT while SPR affects their health and defenses. Stat inflation is one of the unhealthiest things for our game mechanic.Itā€™s reflected within SPR and CON especially. Bringing drain to summons can help detour the amount of bots using it as well. I think tying INT back into summon classes can help becoming a more interactive class enhancing broader combination with Wizards as well as Sorcererā€™s circle 3 INT scaling skills.

The power creeps on SPR specifically on wizard minion classes are pretty unhealthy. It was a great change to an underwhelming class but itā€™s extremely overly efficient and breaks a lot of purposes of Sorcerer circle 3 skills and other synergies. Now SPR is not the sole problem obviously, we have over inflated base damages do to weaponry, but just like with the upcoming heal changes thatā€™s something thatā€™s also applicable to our full SPR conundrums but Iā€™m just someone that believes we shouldnā€™t be doing so much damage without actually investing into damage based stats.

I hope they look at Salamion and add some thematic changes to him as you progress with in the circle, becoming larger and more demon like. He needs some interesting customization and synergies and macro managing tools.

Anything that enhances minion based support is great and overall I like your suggestions.

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#10

Mine too! The reason why I chose to suggest against it is simply the fact that itā€™s so damaging to the performance of the game. Perhaps if the game engine ever gets better it could be re-added or something. It also doesnā€™t work properly to benefit you now which just sucks.

I donā€™t know why but Iā€™m just not a big fan of giving access to summon skills outside of riding. I feel like the main identity is based on riding and it should be made more appealing instead of giving what it does away.

I donā€™t disagree with you. But what youā€™re suggesting goes way beyond sorcerer and would require a lot of revising. Itā€™s not that I disagree with doing that but I feel as if itā€™s not realistic to assume such move at the current state of the game. Nothing wrong with suggesting things like that donā€™t get me wrong.
I do agree with a lot of what you said but I feel like itā€™s a bit different discussion than the intention of the topic.

If they are to keep salamion I really hope they would do some significant changes to it. But Iā€™m just personally biased and would remove it. :tired:

Thanks! I liked yours too.

Before I forget. @Nirimetus Iā€™m sorry but I got a bit lost/confused with your suggestions.

#11

Your idea is easier indeed and they could ship it quite fast, sorcerer deserves some hotfix. When i was working on it i asked some sorcerer friends and from what i got they didnā€™t really cared much about the other skills, it does change the playstyle but i think it would match what we currently have.

I agree on it, those changes on minions did made botting easier and also broke the theme link that SP drain served (and thatā€™s why the class is so clunky stat wise now). Honestly i think sorcerer could survive by having that stupid SP regen prevention removed, specially now that we can get SPR on basically any gear.

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#12

It was my confusion, just invert what I said about Desmodus with Evocation, but nvm that. lol

It was to simplify the skill changes (in the code and in a way) based on their effect anyway.

#13

but i like salamion ; w ;

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#14

You mean when Sorcerers werenā€™t good at literally anything?

Only suggestion I agree with is any buff to Evocation and better scaling on skills like bats and salamionā€“sorcerer is actually otherwise fine.

Also would like to see actual support summons, but thatā€™s neither here nor there.

#15

Just remove riding and introduce a new skill that commands your summon to cast a random spell on its arsenal (5~20s cd)

#16

I donā€™t think better scaling for these skills and a buff to evocation is enough. It takes more than that to make sorc c3 a viable option, I canā€™t say my suggestions are the only/best way but I do think that sorc needs a bit of a rework to make rest of the kit cohesive. I do think that summoning itself is fine as it is tho.

Iā€™d love to see support summons too but I didnā€™t include any summoning related things cause I donā€™t think itā€™s a priority for the class and would much rather see them make the kit more cohesive. Perhaps when they have more time to focus on sorcerer I could hope some changes like this but I feel like itā€™s far from a priority for the current state of the game or the class.

Haha I did say in another comment Iā€™m biased about it and just donā€™t like it very much but maybe if I figure out something I could consider adding a suggestion regarding it other than removing it. :sweat_smile:

Iā€™m personally very against a change like this. I donā€™t want a fundamental part of sorcerer taken away. :confused:

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#17

I like the the Sorcerer C1 and C2 skills. C3 skills sucks so bad.

Anyway, i only want to have few changes from the skill. The attack ground skill is so unpopular to every sorcerer so i want them to change it like this:

Attack Ground: Order the summoned devil from the Grimoire to move and use a skill in a targeted area.

It can be a random skill so that the other class wonā€™t cry so much about the changes.

Also,

Summon Salamion: Summon the fire/ice/lightning/earth devil Salamion. It follows its master and attacks enemies. (Element changes depending on the attribue learned, can be turn off/on so we can switch to other element)

Summon Servant Attribue: % chance to summon a different servant that will give a 6th buff. (No idea on the 6th buff yet Lel).

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#18

Hmm these are actually quite nice ideas. :slight_smile: Do you have any suggestion for improving circle3 of sorcerer? Thatā€™s mainly the focus Iā€™d like to go for with this thread after all. (As itā€™s the circle that actually needs changes the most.)

Quite nice idea too but I think itā€™s a bit unnecessary as the skill is already arguably one of the best support skills in the game.

#19

i want a better riding animation, since a lot of demons makes it look like the sorc is floating.

i was hoping a new attribute like ā€œDemon Meldā€ where a different model is used (prolly your character combined with the summon[centaur-like for those non-humanoid summons]) and perform like rune of giants/lycantropy or something different from riding