nop, waste of rank =D
If you “REAAAAALLLLLYYYYY” like summon riding…
You can go Wiz1-X-X-Thauma3-Sorc3…
With that you can buff with thauma, then jump on summon until you either need pots of HP or need to rebuff with thauma…
Its not “optimal DPS”, but it synergy well overall, and its still useful for CM with thauma3 full SPR…
i’ll repeat myself from reddit
don’t go sorc3… ever… unless it is reworked in some future to be a good circle. For a summoning oriented build it’s a waste of the rank where you can get something else which will have much more synergy.
example build (the one i use on my main char):
wiz3-thaum1-sorc2-ff1-sm2 full SPR
weapon transcendence is good yeah, but you also want some burst damage yourself imo
to explain the build:
wiz3 for strike attribute of Lethargy (use either marnox summon or necroventer, both have good damage on bosses). also magic missile with Swell Left Arm will have 2x missiles on single target.
thaum1 Swell Left Arm with Summon Damage attribute for 10% boost (also with high SPR and enchance attribute you will get some good matk boost)
sorc2 core if you want to main sorc. you may go sorc1 only if you have marnox and want to tailor the rest of the ranks to your liking, but imo sorc2 for riding and better summon control is pretty good. when riding, the best damaging summon is Froster Lord atm. low cooldowns and decent aoe with skills that hit 10 times. but vs bosses you dismount and use either marnox or necroventer (strike damage fast auto-attack) while using your SM2 skills. also go full SPR as it increases summon damage by a big amount (compared to INT increasing your matk not as much)
FF1 - debuffs the target with hexing (increase dark damage by 50%) use either Bone Pointing (reliable vs. single target, hits repeatedly and curses for 7 sec or so, basically if inly one target in its sight, it will be cursed the whole duration of the skill) or kurdaitcha (harder to use but can curse many targets in the area tho only for like 7-8 seconds once). Additionally you get Blood Sucking which you can heal yourself with vs demon/beast/insect monsters (on 40 sec cooldown or around that time)
SM2 - very high single target damage vs grounded targets, all dark damage (so +50% on hexed enemies which you do with FF), low cooldowns, high overhit but also very SP hungry (that’s where full SPR from sorc helps a lot)
Hope that helps.
Is there any info about legendary summons allready? They do more damage or not?
this is what i have so far, couldn’t up more levels yet.
i also don’t know what is the best build possible to use the demon lord marnox, accepting suggestions.
I’m just shameless advertizing this if anyone wants to have a look and give their 2 cents on this. 
Thanks for sharing! But believe or not stats from grimoire do not play huge role in how the summon performs (maybe except HP)
Did you check the actual damage it is dealing? I have a feeling it’s the same as normal Marnox (checked on tos.neet and SFR for the skills is the same).
So is there even a reason to hunt for legendary one if it is only visuals?
Also a suggestion, you can try to morph normal 10 star marnie to a legendary one and check if there is any difference (morph should give 10 stars to legend i think same as it works on normal cards).
I have legendary Helgasercle since a few hours and her stats at 3* compare to 10* normal Helga basically in the same way as the Marnox shown above.
However, shiny!Helga is not just shiny, she is also bigger and with bigger Helga comes a bigger AoE range in her skills. It’s not a super-huge amount, but it is noticeable overall. I tried to gauge how much it is, but it’s hard to tell since positioning yourself in the exact same spot with two differently-sized summons is a bit hard. From what I’ve seen I’d say that her huge AoE skill (D-button) extends by almost a heal tile’s width and as it’s a circle, it does that all around. It’s something. And I do expect her stats to be better on higher *-Level, but getting there will be a challenge. Still, I love Helga and will get there… hopefully.
Apologies for the somewhat vague post last night; it was really late for me.
Here’s some screenshots to give you more details.
a) Helgasercle stat comparision (10 star normal to 3 star legendary)
b) AoE Attack Range
Just in case it isn’t clear from the screenshot already (you can see the circle extending below the skillbar far more on the legendary), I made a line from one end of “normal” Helga’s circle to the other and then copied that line and put it on legendary Helga to show the difference.
As for the damage, I’m still looking into that as I’ve worked only with Morph so far.
As Helga’s AA already has insane range and she runs up to the enemies, it’s pretty difficult to tell if the attack range for her auto attack increased as well. Even normal!Helga hits things far outside of what looks to be her range, so I have zero idea how to measure that.
The size difference can be a bit of an issue when riding, by the way - shiny!Helga likes to get stuck on the stupid entrances in the level 300 dungeon 
(It’s just me being bad, though, Helga is awesome.)
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Okay, here is the result of my damage experiments, continuing the tests from above. The results are pretty weird.
If there is anything else you want tested, let me know.
c) Helgasercle damage comparision
First, normal 10* Helga
We see fluctuating damage, but never dipping below 40k in any way or form.
Second, Legendary 3* Helga, summoned directly
There are hits quite a bit below 40k and she doesn’t reach the damage output of normal Helga on the upper levels. So far, this was expected.
Third, 3* Legendary Helgasercle morphed from 10* Normal Helgasercle
We stay basically in the directly-summoned range. I have tried this several times, just like I tested normal Helga several times. Normal Helga does not dip below 40k, ever, while Legendary Helga does no matter if I summon directly or put her in the second slot and use Morph. This seems to show that Morph does NOT work to carry over stats, despite the fact that both Helgas DO share cooldowns on the skills. I cannot use Morph to reset the skill cooldown, despite the stats not carrying over.
This honestly sucks a lot and I dunno if it’s intended or not. 
Any ideas/thoughts?
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thanks a lot for testing. another question is visual aoe matching the effective one, like could be visual just got bigger with the model size, but there is a chance that effective hitbox is the same. could you please check it somehow (highlander dummies in lemprasa for instance, as being immobile and easier to confirm that)?
Oooh, that is a good idea! Let me see what I can do - it might take a bit of experimenting on finding the range possible since, from my experience, the range is a bit outside of the circle as well. With the long cooldown of the skill, it might take a few minutes to get this done.
I admit I never really checked if visual is different from actual area since I am both Necro and Linker so the rest of my minions usually also clobber everything and I usually use Helga’s AoE, jump down before the hits trigger and use Joint Penalty so that everything gets hit anyway, even if it is outside of the range. Sorry for not considering that there might be a difference.
Give me a bit, I’ll hop over to Lemprasa right away.
Use oracle’s forecast to see area of attack for skills. I believe the skill scrolls can be bought from auction house.
After using your primary helga’s skill and morphing, the cd’s should reset. It may be blacked out and counting down but just press it anyway and it should still do the skill?
Found some scrolls.
Also you were right, it was just my keyboard being wonky before (it’s garbage), I can use the skill despite the countdown being shown. At least that works.
As for the Forecast stuff… nothing makes sense anymore.
I used Photoshop to put the projected areas on top of each other.
Normal Helga: Green
Legendary Helga: The other color
Auto Attack:
Big AoE:
Yeah, Forecast says that normal Helga has for both the normal attack and the big AoE a slightly bigger range than legendary Helga. Which does not match the data from the first experiment or make any sense at all whatsoever because if anything, it should be the same.
The second skill (S-Button), by the way, does not have a projected area or I would have done that as well.
So what can we make out of this?
Honestly, given the small ranges we are talking about here in both experiments, I would say that the AoE range is either the same or there’s some slight variable which is neglectable. I trust what actually hits more than a projected area, so I would still say that maaaaaybe legendary Helga has a very slight range increase in the end, but that might be an error. At any rate, visual and actual range are NOT related at all.
So what is the conclusion so far?
Unless someone has the millions to upgrade a legendary card further than 3* to see if/when the stats surpass the 10* normal card, there’s zero reason to buy a legendary card for summoning. If you get one and want to use it, that’s cool, but selling everything you own for one like I did is definitely not worth it unless you are a diehard fan of that summon and just want the legendary card because it’s shiny and bigger and more colorful.
(I’m still not regretting anything, though. I love legendary Helga, even if she’s not worth the 500+ mil I spent.)
However, testing is not done yet.
I have bought the legendary Helga at 3, so I have no idea of her stats at 1 and 2*, which is regrettable. However, I will - with the last money I own 
- buy another normal Helgasercle and get that one to 3* and see how the difference of 3* normal Helga to 3* legendary Helga is to maybe make a guess at which level legendary Helga will surpass normal Helga in stats.
Stay tuned for more Helga in a few minutes!
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…
…
3-Star Normal Helga and 3-Star Legendary Helga have the same stats. There is zero difference.
Which means that we can assume that 10-Star Legendary Helga might have the same stats as 10-Star Normal Helga.
Which is not how it is supposed to be, according to the dev blog (I quote):
Dev: Yes. The regular cards are going to have the same stats they do now; the new ones are going to have more. The difference is that the regular cards will be available from Mercenary Post missions and Card Albums. Also, if you summon a monster from a Legend Card instead of a regular demon card, your summon will be bigger and the visual effects will be different.
You guys think this warrants a bug report?
I am honestly so confused right now.
i don’t think legends are working properly, also the legend marnox still has direction skills bug so since i don’t have a 10* and sorc isn’t my main i’m not concerned right now.
but the investment to gain nothing is really frustrating 
I did notice that Legendary Helga has some issues with attacking as well (she sometimes just stops moving and/or attacking while the rest of my summons merrily fight on - and no, I’m not idling or anything).
But yeah, I spent everything I have on Legendary Helga and while I still regret nothing because she’s my fav character, this is a huge disappointment at the moment.
Considering to send a support ticket and/or write a bug report at the moment… 
Not sure.
I think legendary cards are not supposed be more powerful for sorcerers than normal cards and they work as indented.
Breaking this quote:
Yes. The regular cards are going to have the same stats they do now; the new ones are going to have more.
This part is talking about the stats it gives to character and is not related to summoning/grimoire.
Also, if you summon a monster from a Legend Card instead of a regular demon card, your summon will be bigger and the visual effects will be different.
This part however talks about summoning and it doesn’t tell about power increase. You can also search the patch notes for when this content was added. There is no mention for summoning power increase.
2 Likes
Okay, let’s assume you are right and the stats are supposed to be the same. Then what is the issue with not letting the stats transfer through Morph? I could understand Morph maybe not transferring stats if the legendary cards are supposed to have higher stats, to avoid making “normal” cards more powerful than intended by placing the normal cards in the secondary slot. But if the stats are supposed to be the same, there is no reason why Morph stat transfer should be blocked. So I would say that at least either the equal stats or the Morph thing is a bug.
I posted a bug report on the forum now and also opened a ticket, so at any rate, I hope we will get an answer soon. And if the answer is that everything is working as intended, then that’s how it is - but at least then we know that there is, for us Sorcs, absolutely no reason to go for legendary cards for summoning then. And that alone would be a good information for many, I think.
3 Likes
Yeah I assume it is bugged. 
Great! Hopefully they will respond. 
I’d try to press it through cause it wouldn’t make any sense at all. And they’ve been known to make mistakes with these matters. Hopefully this doesn’t happen tho.
I mean I’m sure they don’t intend to hinder our power by using legendary cards and it’s absolutely unreasonable to assume that one would try to 10star legendary just for some visuals, considering how expensive and time consuming it is currently.
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