I think he means he can’t “gift” people items they are forced to pay in your system.
I actually really like the group items idea for the auction house. It will only work as long as there’s at least 1 of everything from legit players though. Also theres different variations of items like mentioned above.
As for the second currency thing, IDK. You might as well just buy the item off the auction house. Many people (not all) actually don’t mind not being able to trade silver, they just want to trade items. A roll system like in WoW could solve the issue with an item dropping for the wrong person.
Edit: i rethought it. If someone puts an item worth lets say, 700k and they trade it for an item worth 600k, then they would be able to do it as long as they add 100k more? if it worked that way it might actually work.
Add your suggestion, plus the roll for item drops while in a party and i think it would work out.
So, i like both ideas if it works like that
Quick response:
Grouping items make it hard to understand the market price structure. Also items with different enhancement / enchantments will be a nightmare to group.
More to come later.
Yes, the basic point of a fair trade.
Perhaps it make a bit hard but like any other new system. Gems and enchantments are out of this solution right now. Did not have time to think about it but i tell you this, our current market system have minimum and maximum price for specific Item. This means that we cannot sell a super rare enchantment on market because it wont allow the fair price for it.
Now, enhancements are possible to solve by simply creating another group for that item expecificly for that nivel of enhancement, ie: +0 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 etc.
If the only way to 1:1 trade with someone is to make them pay market price… then why bother letting people 1:1 trade in the first place? Why not just have the market?
There is no, “Hey, you’re a friend so I’ll sell you this item for less than market value”.
You are also going to run into the problem below since it is too hard to assign a proper “market price” to every item since there is just too many ways to modify an item:
I do not really understand what the Required silver concept is all about.
To allow for Personal trade using the basic of fair trade.
Now let me explain the benefits of this solution for the trade system.
-Trade between players with token or not
-No tax
-No delay on payment.
-You can negotiate some bonuses for the buyer if buying from you or market. you could give back the 10% tax in Donation Fund.
You could give as Donation Fund all the silver required in the trade.
Now for the enhancement, well that i did not had time to think about a solution yet. The solutions i came up with were unrelated to that problem to some extent.
it’s a nice try, but too complicated for the average user, and it’s also completely open to exploitation.
firstly, there MUST be some margin above the “standard market value” of an item, to allow for supply/demand to increase the price of an item over time.
and using this margin, RMT’s will exploit the “current market value” of certain items slowly over time. eventually we’ll be right back to 50k for kepa stems.
if there’s no margin, then there’s no room for upward growth. if there’s no room for upward growth, then the base price of EVERY POSSIBLE ITEM EVER must be individually set by hand, before the market can ever open. then a couple of people will undercut an item on the market (to make theirs sell first or whatever), and suddenly, the price is permanently reduced by a few silvers, forever, because there’s no room to go up.
eventually the market is destroyed because nothing in the server sells for more than a handful of silver. at silver becomes pointless, and no one will ever spend any money on anything -but- basic supplies, because no one will waste their time with the AH since it’s impossible to get a reasonable value for anything. everyone will just be rolling around in piles of silver, with nothing to spend it on. and since no one can spend their silver, trade dies
the game dies
everything is over.
grouping items would be a nightmare. everything would be reverted to baseline when it was put up for sale, because you can’t group items that don’t have the same stats. that amazing enchant roll you just got on a new headgear? gone when you put it up for sale. etc.
alternately, grouping would require that enhancements be shaved down to bare minimums: instead of +XX to Str… ALL items that added Str would add 7 points. and you couldn’t mix-and-match enhancements anymore. any enhancement that affected multiple stats would only/always affect those stats, by only/always those exact amounts.
also, where would the baseline value come from? right now it’s a free-for-all for the first bunch of any given item type listed on the AH… it’s only from a series of sales that the system can decide what a reasonable baseline is.
Its basic the the principle of a fair trade. If you are going to adquire an Item you must pay the fair price for it. This enables trades between token and non token users and finaly it removes the last option the silver sellers have to make money.
Now to explain how it would work, lets say Arde Dagger, for you to trade it with another person the buyer would be required to pay the fair price for it. That price would be the minimum price on market at the moment of the trade.
Ok but the implementation of this system is extremely tricky. What is considered a fair price? How is this fair price determined? Is it possible to manipulate this fair price using low volume traded items?
Also why must a trade be fair? What if I wanted to gift someone? How if I wanted to help my friend with x amount of silver?
My solutions does not involve regulation of the market, if that was a problem before it will be a problem after this solutions are implemented since i am not going into that direction yet.
Base price of an Item on Personal Trades are based of the market. If what your possibility happens its due to another issues not involved into the solutions i presented.
Again iam not regulating the market or a minimum or maxium price there, iam just using the information we have of the prices on market to create a Fair Trade between players.
Yes everyone brings enhancements up, but its a problem right now and i didnt have time to think about a solution, By the way in the current system you have minimum and maximum prices for the items, a super rare enhancement wouldnt be able to be sold for the right price. But again, iam not regulating the market, just using the info about its prices to create Fair Trade between players.
Iam not talking about baseline, iam talking about a minimum price at time of the trade.
This is Personal Trade, there is the regulation from the system but also the comon sense of the player. If they are trying to inflate the price of an Item in the market by buying all the items from there. This wont regulate it, this would only solve the problems i listed on the video. The Fair price is the minimum price on the market at the time of the trade.
A trade must be fair to be enable between token and non token users, if you want to gif someone go for it, they would required to pay for the item but you could just give the silver as donation Fund back. You cant give silver without a fair trade, otherwise silver sellers would abuse it.
The general logic behind your system seems sound. However it is not very intuitive. There might also be small conflicts during implementation that we have not thought about yet. I will have to think this over a longer period of time.
I appreciate it, every criticism is welcome. I spent quite sometime thinking how to abuse it and how hard could it be to be implemented. So far this is the most efficient way.
Just for a notion, there is a way to solve the bot problem with a simple equation. But i wont give it to IMC if they dont listen to community.
I’ll be interested if you are willing to send it over PM.
Iam sorry, due to the fragility of the current system and the simplicity of the equation it cannot be revealed.
No. They’ll just sell items then, items that you can sell back on the market for needed silver. They’ll be 2 less potential due to -1 from bot getting it from market with botted silver and another -1 by giving it to you.
Grouping is not good for market too as it doesn’t allow you to see if someone who wants to sell fast severely undercuts other positions so that you don’t put your item at his (shitty) price but at the price of the next position. It’ll probably lead to severe deflation of market goods price which is very bad for market.
I prefer my yet-to-be-made-readable wall-of-text solution more…
Could you elaborate on what you are referencing to please?
Grouping solves alot of problems, your mention is the very reason i wanted feedback on this. There is problems we need to adapt to, lets see for exemple the option to hover on icon in the market and see the price it was most sold at based on day or week.
You want to limit silver trade but then botters will just switch to selling items.
Also the you can just trade silver by passing item(s) back to the buyer and buying them back with silver to avoid donation funds.
Steam trading is good and all (and has stupid delays too) but it works with one item type, in ToS you can have arde dagger +1, arde dagger with -1 reduced potential, arde dagger +1 with -1 reduced potential and thats 4 different items already, get %itemname% with +X enchant and Y-star gems and you get a unique item for a botter to pass silver through.