Its basic the the principle of a fair trade. If you are going to adquire an Item you must pay the fair price for it. This enables trades between token and non token users and finaly it removes the last option the silver sellers have to make money.
Now to explain how it would work, lets say Arde Dagger, for you to trade it with another person the buyer would be required to pay the fair price for it. That price would be the minimum price on market at the moment of the trade.
Ok but the implementation of this system is extremely tricky. What is considered a fair price? How is this fair price determined? Is it possible to manipulate this fair price using low volume traded items?
Also why must a trade be fair? What if I wanted to gift someone? How if I wanted to help my friend with x amount of silver?
My solutions does not involve regulation of the market, if that was a problem before it will be a problem after this solutions are implemented since i am not going into that direction yet.
Base price of an Item on Personal Trades are based of the market. If what your possibility happens its due to another issues not involved into the solutions i presented.
Again iam not regulating the market or a minimum or maxium price there, iam just using the information we have of the prices on market to create a Fair Trade between players.
Yes everyone brings enhancements up, but its a problem right now and i didnt have time to think about a solution, By the way in the current system you have minimum and maximum prices for the items, a super rare enhancement wouldnt be able to be sold for the right price. But again, iam not regulating the market, just using the info about its prices to create Fair Trade between players.
Iam not talking about baseline, iam talking about a minimum price at time of the trade.
This is Personal Trade, there is the regulation from the system but also the comon sense of the player. If they are trying to inflate the price of an Item in the market by buying all the items from there. This wont regulate it, this would only solve the problems i listed on the video. The Fair price is the minimum price on the market at the time of the trade.
A trade must be fair to be enable between token and non token users, if you want to gif someone go for it, they would required to pay for the item but you could just give the silver as donation Fund back. You cant give silver without a fair trade, otherwise silver sellers would abuse it.
The general logic behind your system seems sound. However it is not very intuitive. There might also be small conflicts during implementation that we have not thought about yet. I will have to think this over a longer period of time.
I appreciate it, every criticism is welcome. I spent quite sometime thinking how to abuse it and how hard could it be to be implemented. So far this is the most efficient way.
Just for a notion, there is a way to solve the bot problem with a simple equation. But i wont give it to IMC if they dont listen to community.
Iāll be interested if you are willing to send it over PM.
Iam sorry, due to the fragility of the current system and the simplicity of the equation it cannot be revealed.
No. Theyāll just sell items then, items that you can sell back on the market for needed silver. Theyāll be 2 less potential due to -1 from bot getting it from market with botted silver and another -1 by giving it to you.
Grouping is not good for market too as it doesnāt allow you to see if someone who wants to sell fast severely undercuts other positions so that you donāt put your item at his (shitty) price but at the price of the next position. Itāll probably lead to severe deflation of market goods price which is very bad for market.
I prefer my yet-to-be-made-readable wall-of-text solution moreā¦
Could you elaborate on what you are referencing to please?
Grouping solves alot of problems, your mention is the very reason i wanted feedback on this. There is problems we need to adapt to, lets see for exemple the option to hover on icon in the market and see the price it was most sold at based on day or week.
You want to limit silver trade but then botters will just switch to selling items.
Also the you can just trade silver by passing item(s) back to the buyer and buying them back with silver to avoid donation funds.
Steam trading is good and all (and has stupid delays too) but it works with one item type, in ToS you can have arde dagger +1, arde dagger with -1 reduced potential, arde dagger +1 with -1 reduced potential and thats 4 different items already, get %itemname% with +X enchant and Y-star gems and you get a unique item for a botter to pass silver through.
its not that simple. Because: potential system. Forcing players to buy lowest potential items by grouping by enhancement is a bad āsolutionā.
There is also: briquetting (with random bonus, uses potential per attempt), awakening (with random bonus, uses potential), wide variety of variously leveled and/or roasted gems, trinkets etc.
Thats not how its going to work. First, Limit silver trade is not the true at all, iam trying to EXPAND the silver trade, allowing non-token players to trade as well or even use silver in Personal trades.
To silver be traded between players it MUST be a FAIR TRADE, that means if iam gonna trade a arde dagger with you, you would be required to pay the market price for the trade be successful.
except that it does. your system does not allow someone to pay under whatever someone decided is the āfair market valueā, and it penalizes you for paying over (shunts all the extra coin into a limited currency type) thereby forcing people to pay only the fair market value (again, whatever that is decided to be)
but what about items that are unusually rare? they wonāt actually -have- a base market price. so how does one determine what is a āfairā price?
yes, but you are penalizing trades that are not -at- the āfair market valueāā¦ which is in fact exactly what āregulating the marketā is.
a minimum āacceptableā price is exactly what i meant by ābaselineā.
āfair market valueā = ābaselineā = āminimum valueāā¦ different terms with roughly the same meaning.
anyway, first point: this is -exactly- a market regulation solution. it regulates what is allowed in the market, preventing what it considers āunfairā trades, at least by basic analytical process.
secondly; most of what this is is simply taking the system currently in place on the AH, and expanding it to personal trade, except with tighter regulation.
so like lots of people have asked, what happens if i deliberately want to make an unfair trade?
ā¦ i want to gift a friend new to the game a bunch of silver, so they can go shopping on the AH? well, by the way youāve described the system, their trade value would be zero, so all the silver would go to this ādonationā currency, and be useless.
ā¦what if i want to give someone an item? eg, playing in a party, and a really kickass bow drops that the archer has been desperately farming forā¦ but the system [t]rolls that the cleric gets it, because RNGesus is nothing if not a fickle god. my cleric obviously has no use for the bow, but itās considered a very high value item. i donāt mind just giving it to them, because i expect in return that if the similar mace drops later, they would let me have it. so what happens? the trade is not āfairā by computer standards (it cannot evaluate for an expectation of reward later)ā¦ so does this mean the archer is forced to give me the cash value of the item or the trade is blocked? are we forced to wait until the mace drops, so he can give that to me in trade?
which just adds more what ifās:
āwhat if the mace and bow are not āequal valueā on the market?
āwhat if itās the wizard who gets the mace, instead of the archer? this just doubles up the trade inequality, because now the wizard wants to make an āunfairā trade to me.
How is it going to solve trade between new players? The only thing it solves is ability to spam wtb/wts in chat to make trades to avoid market tax, no cooperation, no helping your friends, nothing, just a way to get more dosh and promote spam. And that āfair market valueā, lol, no thanks, I want market, not this.
amenā¦ instead of implementing something like this, might as well just bump up vendors to give player-comparable payouts on items, and eliminate trade/market completely.
if thereās zero trade, then thereās ā¦ well, almost zero opportunity for RMT. i guess they could just level and gear up an account and sell the whole thing. altho, having it attached to a steam account would make that -less- popular (but still not eliminate it.)
That regulation is for Personal Trade, not market.
Lets imagine a super rare weapon just dropped, first in the server. There is no market mimum or maximum price for it, the silver required wont exist and therefore anyprice put will be the fair value.
Personal trade would be a bonus, since you dont pay the 10% tax, not a penalty.
Please iam not talking about regulation the market but regulating PERSONAL TRADES.
Exactly with bonuses.
You cant do that in current system and you wouldnt be able to do that under my solution, with the idea to stop silver sellers.
Yes, this would prevent bots from selling Item for real life money, the system does not take into account the probability of the future.
If they are not the same value then the required silver must be payed out for the differente, lets see i trade my arde dagger(800m) for your karacha recipe(1mm), i would still have to pay 200m silver to make the trade happen.
Finaly let me put this clear, my solutions does not involve drops but lets create one right now based on what i read on the Forums, If you are in a party and some item drops and you want to give it away, left click it and choose donate, select the party member and bam, he gets it and the Item loses 1 potential.
Thatās all you want you greedy OP.
Letās get some unpopular item on the market that costs almost nothing.
Wrong, like many before you asked why someone would personal trade instead of market, there is benefits for it.
Let me be more clear for you,
SUPER RARE WEAPON FIRST ON THE SERVER, with no minimum or maximum price on market yet. Buy all the cheap itens you want it wont delete the data already on that item.
With so many flaws and but itās just not worth it. The idea to sell items to your friends sounds ridiculous, the only thing worthy about it is ability to trade good item in echange for a load of crap thatāll be vendored anyway. Itāll both be used by botters and players. And something that was intentionally missed:
This will allow to manually set a price for a unique item and use it to trade, even better, now tradable without market tax and straight to the person via trade with the price set on the market beforehand and market lot canceled after the price is set. Or do you want to regulate that too?