Tree of Savior Forum

Say Yes to job reset

General Discussion
#201

If you do a research, you’ll realize this is an unforgiving game.

Specially in the last ranks, which specialize in utilities most of the time.

  • Think in a cleric that got pardoner on R5-R6-R7 and found out he can’t sell most of his skills. This also applies to players that did a moderate amount of research, because the game does an awful job explaining it.

  • Think in a cleric that got oracle and found out it has not a single viable attack skill.

  • Think in a R7 class that was greatly nerfed (after he spent lots of TP on perfect stats and a hundred million TP setting skills) and is forced to abandon all that and start from 0.

This game is very unpolished, developers didn’t thought in many aspects, this is why class resets are a big necessity.

Can’t simply tell players that spent good money to GTFO because you want to feel “pro”.

If you don’t want one then don’t get one, don’t bother the rest that do.

It doesn’t affect you, after all.

Other than being a hater there is no reason to campaign to deny something that help other players.

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#202

I don’t really care about PvP. I’m more into PvE. I did think a lot about it, however I learned it during my playtime. No build I’ve read/researched told me so. I have even read the forums looking for some advice but all the data is scrambled and you don’t know what to believe. Specially because it was mixed with data from previous betas, and chances were that that info was outdated. (I didn’t play any of the OBs).

Some people are concerned about it and the overall performance of a swordman as a whole. It promotes the cookie cutter builds because how poor these skills are balanced. Besides the reset thing to temporary address certain issues, the job as whole needs a full revamp, imo.

I thought “Meh, I’ll do it fine”. But as I was progressing, I was more of a burden than a help, because our DPS sucks bad and I was not helping the groups at all.

I found myself re-rolling my character, losing everything because of this huge bag of BS. Needing a mandatory circle so I can play with other people is bad. Bad design is bad.

#203

I wouldn’t call class resets a necessity for the game in the long run. I do agree in it’s current state a full class reset upon glaring issues getting fixed would be welcome. However, I don’t think glaring issues that need to be fixed anyways is reason enough to implement something as impactful as on demand resets.

Edit: I wish threads would get merged, feels like I am parroting my opinions to each thread as I lost track of which ones I commented in.

1 Like
#204

My personal enjoyment should not be a point support your argument. If IMC sold EXP Cards how would that affect your enjoyment of the game? Do you see why this just doesn’t work?

Alternatively, the developers can re-balance and alter skills if it’s a big issue. Why is simply aborting the class the only option? Also please don’t use the Oracle argument. None of their skills are even listed as an attack. This is the equivalent of me taking Monk and being upset that they can’t heal. And you know what IMC does after a big balance patch? They often hand out skill and stat resets. I don’t understand the mentality that your build wasn’t 100% as you thought so it’s time to scrap it. That’s how a min-maxer plays. That’s how hardcore players play.

Now I’ve said before that I actually think you should circle resets. Yeah, that’s right. I do. But I don’t believe in just… changing circles. No, you have to put in some kind of effort, some sort of work. I’ve proposed dropping your class to rank 1 level 1 and giving you an exp bonus so you can level up faster but still have to level. I think circle resets are fine as long as it’s not a simple transfer.

And you can dumb down my side to being hater if you wish, but there is a lot of things that help players that aren’t a good idea. EXP Cards in the cash shop will help players who burned cards early and didn’t know when to use and save them. Should I support that because it would help another player? What about the player who wants to experience endgame but has so little time to play? Should I support a max level TP item? This is obviously a slippery slope but I don’t think that an item designed to help players is enough of a reason to support its existence.

@cyruswallace Sorry but you, as a PvE player, didn’t think that AoE aggro generation was a good idea? There were no posts predating the early release that revealed this information? I am beyond skeptical.

#205

But. It’s. Different. One would be P2W and the other isn’t.

#206

Looks like you are, however you’re making assumptions instead of questions. Asumming I could enjoy PvP, assuming I would play a tank because I like PvE. AoE aggro generation is a function related to tanks, not DPS. I wanted to play a DPS class but our damage doesn’t scale well compared to other classes. So, in order to find a spot in parties and be somewhat useful, I had to put that one single alone stupid peltasta circle.

If we had a good base DPS, we would be appreciated that way.

BUT I GUESS I can just buy lots of silver, buy tokens with TP and sell them, then with the new token system just spam attributes because that’s not broken at all. The reset of one single circle seems to be super crazy compared to it.

#207

People this is 2016, we cannot have hardcore games like Baldur’s Gate anymore, even games like Pillars of Eternity and Divinity Original Sins have to be tweaked to fit the more casual players - why do you think there’s so many mobile games nowadays? Why do you think Konami (#f**kkonami) decided to quit developing games?

I say “yes to job resets” but only limit it when you reach a certain rank or when IMC decides to nerf a class to oblivion.

Thank you.

1 Like
#208

Why do you care what other people do to have fun? It doesn’t affect you, right? Why is that a problem for you? Why should you care if someone pays to win? Doesn’t impact your experience, right?

@cyruswallace Well your issue is with the swordsman class as a whole. Do you know why people usually don’t want DPS swordsmen? Because of the reasons you said. That’s why they prefer tanky types. Does that mean you have to be one? Nope. You can make your own party if that is the case. That’s a balance issue, not a circle reset issue. Unless you’re hopping onto the build which is most popular this month.

Also why bring up tokens? Your argument is literally, “We have this broken thing I am not okay with, so why can we have this?” and that’s bad.

#209

You’re right. I really don’t care because it doesn’t affect me at all. I’m just pointing out that your argument is flawed.

#210

The fact that you don’t care is actually a massive problem. You’re every MMO developer’s dream. Complacent about P2W. You’d be perfect if you were also a whale.

#211

So now you’re trying to mix opinions and facts? Your strawman argument is astounding.

#212

You yourself said you don’t care. That’s a fact, as stated by you. And this is off topic to begin with.

#213

It is. let’s just agree to disagree.

#214

"[quote=“Rubiss, post:208, topic:232830”]
Well your issue is with the swordsman class as a whole. Do you know why people usually don’t want DPS swordsmen? Because of the reasons you said.
[/quote]

It’s currently an issue but devs didn’t give us a word about it. There’re plenty of complaints about swordmen not being on par with actual DPS with very nice arguments. That’s truly a balance issue.

Now, even if my story sounds somewhat offtopic, you asked for a build that led to a bad experience. That’s mine, giving you the reasons why it was bad. Sharing a whole thread of people like me who "suffered"the same thing.

Also, you are AGAIN assuming I’m talking about a complete full reset? Stop assuming, seriously. A limited reset would enable me to replace one single circle without affecting my build that much. How is, ONCE CIRCLE, going to let me hop into the month’s hot class? Care to explain?

Explain why is bad. Don’t label an argument just like that without offering an explanation. I can’t read minds, I tried it. Being able to improve the attributes without limit but my wallet, also allowing me to buy reset pots, should be in the same bag than the “LIMITED CIRCLE RESET FEATURE”. I see no people quitting because of that. I barely see people complaining about it or spamming threads demanding IMC to do something about it.

I know you are a loyal supporter of the idea that IMC listen to the playerbase. Most QoL elements they included in the latest patch comes from our feedback. They are becoming more flexible compared to the original proposed model. I can’t see why we couldn’t have a LIMITED CIRCLE RESET FEATURE. LIMITED. Not one that allows you to switch a full builds in matter of seconds.

#215

I actually am for limited circle resets. Yeah, you heard right. I am completely, 100% against full resets that let you simply repick your circles. For me, if you want to reset a circle, you should be able to but you should have to level that same circle up.

So for your example, if you want to be a Peltasta? Go back to Rank 2 level 1 and grind up back to Rank 3. That’s acceptable to me.

As for why you’re token argument is bad I’ll explain. You are very biased towards token as you’ve called them broken. You seem to think that because we have something you deem broken in the cash shop then that makes anything not broken a valid entry into the cash shop. So by acting like circle resets aren’t as bad as tokens, for you, that is a supporting argument. That is a bad way to think. Rather than add x and y item to the cash shop because z is broken, you should make z more fair so that x and y can make more sense.

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#216

Then why are we arguing about resets if we both want the same thing? Unless you assumed I was talking about full resets. From the very first second I was against them. It would let you make small tweaks on your classes or fix small mistakes.

It’s not the token itself but the possibility of selling it for silver what it bothers me the most. It will get only worse when this game goes F2P. Silver is a key element in progression, not because of the attributes but gear upgrades, recipes and materials. It trivializes the “farming” aspect of the game. The whole market is ruled by silver.

We also have certain reset freedom with the cash shop’s pot.

The latest update improved the token even more, giving silver even further relevancy and power, enabling you to max your attributes in no time. How do you get lots of silver without moving a finger (in-game. Money still costs IRL time)? Either RMT (buying doesn’t seem to be punisheable) or selling these tokens as well.

Since English is not my native language I think I f***d up my argument. I hope you get my idea.

#217

this argument has poped out too many times already, and it’s ■■■■■■■ stupid to keep arguing about this.

The point is, a class reset system NEEDS to be in place in case of major reworks/revamps, and also to allow theorycrafting, the thing is how LIMITED it should be, since a free class reset would completely break the game

NO Job reset PLEASE!
#218

Easily abusable, I can pick a freaking easy class path to solo, get a high level on it (rank 7+) then switch to some real useful but painfull to level class path, like, linker3>chrono3 and be good to go.

The linker3>chrono3 path is a pain in the butt to level, with no damage whatsoever besides rank2… is it fair just because “you can only play on weekends” you pick a noob friendly class path to reach high level then just reset? I’m sorry, but thats bull crap to me, its something a lazy person would ask for…

Next thing you gonna ask is a “rank 7 auto level ticket” because some people just doesn’t have time to invest into their characters, right?

If you’re really interested on a specific class, study its skills, watch youtube gameplays, research the game and its mechanics and only then you can actually have what you need to confirm if that class suits your playstyle or not… if you go into the game blindly, you’re asking to be frustrated.

I know from experience, cause I played “Skyforge”, spent like 5 days farming to get the class I wanted, when I actually got it, I was totally disapointed by its playstyle, didn’t suited me, even tho at the beginning it sounded awesome (costume and skills), in the end, it was my fault that didn’t made a research about it to check its pros and cons, I just dived in blindly. When I went to ToS determined to not make the same mistake twice, I’ve spend the same time I did farming, into researching about what class suited my playstyle and which skills to invest and which ones not to, even tho IMC striked me by surprise with that Steady Aim nerf, I stood my ground cuz I KNEW that fletcher would be the best fit for me, and now I have a awesome builded fletcher3 both stat and skills and not a damm regret… you should do the same and stop willing to have everything easy for you.

This is an MMO, some people are casuals and some other are hardcores…if you don’t have the time to invest into the game, there are some people who can, get used to it

1 Like
#219

IMC won’t make a class “Completely useless”, if theres a nerf, it would problably be needed, they won’t just nerf it to the ground… they nerfed Ranger, so what? It still kicks ass, only whiners would say “oh noes they nerfed from 40 to 15 how am I going to pick a strong class now?”… reset POINTS are okay for every major nerf, but CLASS reset? C’mon, you guys will need a better argument than that

#220

MY suggestion?

for those who are lazy enough to do their homework, IMC should make a “training room” with every class in the game where the player can actually test it with all the skills and circles… but only inside that room, so the dude could actually test the class before choosing

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