Tree of Savior Forum

Remove Pay to Win Options (Like resurrecting with icoins)

Gameplay Feedback General Feedback
#61

You’re probably right, it needs a slight pay2win option. Still doesn’t mean that revive on spot needs to stay, or IS the ONE option. I not arguing that self revive is pay2win, it’s not, but it’s bloody shitty. As i said: [quote=“ergo_, post:45, topic:121004, full:true”]
That is still bad. Why not tweak the game properly, make it so deaths occurs because of YOU, and only YOU? then there is lag, the are performance issues, there are glitches. Of course, this is beta, that’s why its there, so you can get around those frustrating problems. But if this mechanic persists on release, this tells that your game is still full of problems, and that you don’t have the money, time, or will to fix those issues. Reviving on spot may not be pay to win, but its one of the marks of an unpolished game.
[/quote]

And I can think of loads of other slight pay2win / convenience options: Stash tabs, Permanent Carrywheight potions (1 per character), exp boosts(that’s a given), Dungeon tokens ( permits more entries per day), Free repairs, Teleport scroll that doesnt need a Statue and can go anywhere. And im not even paid to think of these. I’m sure they can think something up.

All of these are in a grey area that some will see as pay2win, some wont.

My point is: I want to see insta revive out, not because its pay2win, but because it’s shitty. It enables lax from the development end, in regards to the overall difficulty and balance of the PVE.

1 Like
#62

I really want Pay for Cute & Beautiful Character.

I don’t want Pay to get Great Item.

Pay to get Great Item, Pay to get more EXP are Pay to Win

2 Likes
#63

Reviving on the same spot where you died using iCoin is ok. I mean, its fair. I dont want other people to get my gems when i die lel. Also, my wizard class character sometimes die when casting a spell. Skills are on cooldown so i revive using iCoin and run on the safe spot. It’s not pay to win. :confused:

3 Likes
#64

@OP: Let’s say, boss battle. If the boss is possible to beat w/o paying then there is no p2w barrier there because you just need to git gud to beat the boss. If you died against the boss, using icoin doesn’t mean you already went p2w because the boss never had a p2w barrier in the first place.

Now let’s take another example scenario. We are at Lv200 Cap and this Lv200 raid boss is totally impossible to beat w/o everyone using icoin because it wipes the team entirely even the priests. Now that’s a p2w barrier. Forcing people to use icoin to beat it makes it p2w.

Although let’s say that this boss can actually be beaten w/o using icoin but needs UBER upgraded stuff that will take a hardcore f2p player farm for several months to the point that the next level cap is already released before managing to get these UBER upgraded gears. That’s another p2w barrier because it still forces player to use some real money to quicken up their progress. (I’m actually taking this example from Dragon Nest where tons of hardcore players like me quitted at Lv60 Cap because of the very long time it takes to get the gears needed to beat the raid boss).

2 Likes
#65

Maybe the OP haven’t tried demon prison yet. If you think resurrecting using iCoin is p2w or to ez, i dare you to go to that map and die with penalty (deduction on the durability of your items) and grind. I presume you know there’s a penalty right? On higher level maps, getting KO’ed with low item durability is a no no. It will hinder your grinding time.

Don’t think that people are relying to much on iCoin revive. Higher level players is doing everything they can to survive when grinding or when in dungeon because they know that there’s a death penalty.

#66

Yup. Icoin revive only works on emergency. The durability reduce is too much to function as a continuity factor in dungeons.

#67

we should remove i-coin, item mall give much advantage we should not have it
and then let start playing by quit the job, throw our-self to each other room and play over 20hr a day.
woohoo game’s life real-gamer wow
i didn’t see a problem even someone willing to pay - -.
and you can’t stop pay 2 win just by stop item mall. must set NO TRADE to every stuff even potion so people will not be able to buy GODLY CLASS ITEM with real money.
where the point talking about pay 2 win in MMO - -.

#68

Does resurrection actually get around that? I thought the durability penalty is applied on death whether you resurrect via Priest or Statue or iCoin. Gems drop before you resurrect, for example.

#69

paying for time savers and convenience are NOT p2w.
now, in reality its rare that you have both alot of time AND money, pick two:

in most cases you either have Time and can put in alot of Effort, but you dont have much Money to spend
or you have Money and want to put in the Effort, but you cant spend as much Time in the game

4 Likes
#70

many equips are unique. others are quite expensive to make. the other thing is the extra weight it occupies. and you sometimes have yet varios equips, like if you want to take advantage of ele resistances etc

#71

Maybe instead of remove the Icon option to ress you could stop dying or take a priest (who have resurrection) to dungeon. So far I haven’t be in fight when the Icon option really means the difference but I am not fighting boss when I am under his lvl.

#72

Ya, it doesn’t get around that. That’s why icoin revive don’t actually help much.

#73

How about you… try to not die then? And if you do, try better next time. Reviving right away in the instance is not always an option in games. They are just kissing us by kindly making it possible, making it easier for us to do mistakes without wasing much more time to run back where we died. Still you will eventually have to fix your equipement so you will have to run to town anyway. Its really better to not die, unless you aim for the achievement title. :stuck_out_tongue:
There is also that NPC in Klaipedia wich gives you free iCons for what you have accomplished in game. I have over hundreds of iCons and i don’t know what to do with them. And i don’t even die that much despite having low HP. I just avoid attacks by controling my movement. Bosses shows you clearly where their attacks will hit, or if not, then you can learn this by looking at their animations wich is different for each spell they are going to make. If you already plan on dying a lot i am not sure if you will be welcome in group’s, + your game experience will suck a lot.
Nonetheless like others have said, reviving is not p2w. It just time-saver.

#74

People are really getting liberal with their definition of p2w. I remember way back when, getting a huge advantage on someone else only meant something in the context of PVP. Now we have people crying p2w over inventory space and other convenience items.

Do you honestly think a company is going to sustain itself on cosmetics? Get real. If missing out on a world boss’s loot bothers you so much, then perhaps you should get better at the game.

2 Likes
#75

You kinda missed the point of the discussion until the last line lol.

Cash item is definitely needed to keep the game alive. The discussion is about what will/will not upset the balance of the game too much.

1 Like
#76

Think we should remove priest ressu skill then >.< I swear to the gods I only managed to ressurrect around 10 times because people just pop the icoin thing instantaneously, what’s even the point of this skill~~~~(I revived people that were AFK lol) Aside from pushing mobs;

In instances no one likes to wait for the stupid priest to cast a 2second skill, they will just pop their thing and fight back, specially because not every priest takes ressurrection, this skill shows to be useless at the moment.

I bet if the ress skill nulified the durability loss, everyone would be asking for ressurrections instead of icoins uwu… and therefore would only prefer to use coins when they’re soloing bosses and stuff alike.

#77

False. I’m a webprogrammer. And we add/remove features all the time. In fact, it’s even easier to remove features than adding new ones.

So there. It’s not hard to change or remove features.

#78

Streamers have all 3.

They have Time (play 8 or more hours a day), money (from donation), effort (well they dont get subs if they dont work on it).

#79

Don’t remove resurrect wow. This is just the beta, and I realize people are probably going to be buying these iCoins a lot during release but it shouldn’t be the only option.

Making resurrect more effective would be awesome though.

2 Likes
#80

You do realize it’s already been said that the ress for icoins (as well as stat reset scroll) are for beta only… The only icoin item we even know that exists sofar is skill reset.

Id be more worried about something like a xp boost. Normally I don’t mind them since you buy a couple weeks or 1 month of it and hit cap with it in most games. Would not be looking forward to how many months of xp boosts I would have to buy to stay competitive in the leveling race in this game though lol

1 Like