Like what you said, transcendence in ToS is like a real world implementation of the workforce pyramid, where many people are stuck at the bottom layer slogging it out doing ‘grunt work’ just to provide services for the one on top. Yes they do get paid for it, but they themselves are stunted for progression.
So, in order for them to progress, they themselves have to be on top, hence building another ‘network pyramid’, where there will be others below supplying resources to them. Sounds like some interesting marketing technique we all so heard about every now and then right?
It isn’t about whether the player has thought of other ways and means to acquire resources such as blessed shards and practonium, it is about how these resources, which are crucial to normal character progression in general content, can only be generated when some other character stop their own growth to help push others up.
IMC highlighted before that content is pegged to transcendence in R8 (iirc I read it in the kToS meetup report, korean version). They is why the community is concerned about R9 where they will base the R9 content with consideration that players have transcendence. But in this ‘pyramid’ structure only a small number of characters are able to meet this ‘transcended equipment criteria’.
I’m afraid that this a game, the complete destruction of a system is possible, with backlash included, but, in the end if your actions cost you hundreds in hopes of bringing thousands or millions you’ve got to take a decision.
Transcendance is not a core part of the game in any way whatsoever. It is latched, can be removed and reversed easily. The problem is how to deal with the community and future design.
IMC to fix this one has to come and talk directly to us, keep us posted weekly and they’re not doing so. I’m afraid that being selfish can go both ways in this argument, we are selfish because we want a better system, you are selfish because you want this system to remain.
Going forward will and has always been an IMC decision.
I dont want to argue about ideals. But all i can say is, people are not equal. If youre stuck at the bottom thats your own predicament. If you introduce another system, would be just another leash you want to put on your neck.
Ive heard those arguments from jynxie 10 years ago in other MMOs. Basically he is a merchant. Instead of playing the game he plays the market and he is able to accumulate enough money to buy endgame stuff. Even in the most p2w game merchants can still buy endgame stuff. But at point it is no longer a game for them, but a job. And a low paying one at that.
Im not selling RMT, im enjoying the game at its fullest. Never i sold any items IRL. I hold them dear as memories. I love challenge, i beat it using the best method outthere. If there is more better strategy than me, then congrats? I would rather spend my time with someone else than treat this game as a job. So get your fact straight, before you accuse me of profiting from this game. You should better argue from the points i raised so we can move forward.
Transcendence is a symptom of TOS not being finished yet, ie. no Rank 10. It helped to create a long term endgame where there wasn’t one. It came at the wrong time, and as painful as it is, I’m in favour of either removing it, or completely changing it to the point of it being a basic buff to equipment. This kind of long term commitment to equipment should have come out when the best equipment does at the top of ET1000.
Right now, I’d advocate redoing the system to one that provides small, low commitment advantages. (See Heroes of Incredible Tales mana system for an interesting idea).
For those who have invested in Transcendence though, they need to be compensated. I’m thinking everything from Anvils that don’t cost money or potential, attribute vouchers, and additional materials for whatever the new system is.
Yep I agree, no one is equal. I do believe that the concept of status, power and wealth in ToS can be presented in a much better way though, at least through methods in which everyone has a chance at without trampling onto other players/characters’ chances.
@fatedhour
Each player has their own method and way to approach the game. This is the beauty of a MMO, the freedom of having no set path and everyone is free to use their own methods they like to progress.
I actually liked how merchant players like jynxie and our guild’s own Wingzard plays. They have a set goal and look for ways to leverage the game’s economy to get nearer to their goal. Not everyone can do that. :3
I wouldn’t call them griefers, but I too have yet to see a viable alternative. I don’t blame the community for not having viable ideas though, this is such a complex issue. Not only do we have to find a system that works, and not just mechanically, but in a way that actually constitutes as gameplay, but recommend compensation and an actual way to move from the current system.
I have presented one in the other topic, sort of. In rank 9 they will be able to balance transcendence properly by doing a power creep on other systems to match the power of transcendence. Yes power creep is bad but other big budget games like diablo 3 also uses power creep regularly as the main way to balance without resorting to the nerf bat which many dont like.
I really don’t see that as viable. We shouldn’t settle for power creep that balances problematic design choices. TOS shouldn’t be mediocre, it should be phenomenal.
It doesn’t help casuals, this game is not casual. IMC planted things this way, they can´t go back without perjudicing most of the hardcore players, and those are the ones who put the pennies here. Unless they wanted to lose these last, but I doubt It’d be a great idea for them.
Come to think of it, besides the transcendence idea which I talked about previously, I have another idea as an alternative to transcendence. No spectacular title as of now, I’ll just name it:
"The Household Attributes, Transcendence " a.k.a THAT
How THAT works
Similarly like how we get blessed shards and gems, through saalus (or some other way in which IMC dictates in future). Players are able to buy/sell/trade blessed shards/gems just like now.
Blessed gems are used to upgrade the team household. Household upgrades can be divided into 3 categories:
Core Stats Category
Upgrades are patk, matk, evasion, stamina, hp, sp etc. These upgrades go upwards to a max limit of +100% and are exchanged in denominations of 2% per 10 blessed gems. The upgrades are like the guild’s forges and academies, and will affect all characters in the game account/team. So players can farm shards, contribute to this core stat and every character will benefit from it.
Skill Augmentation Category
This are the so called ‘quasi-equip’ category. Each character will be given a max of 5 slots to add skill augmentations. A skill augmentation can be like the following:
-2 secs cooldown to all skills
Changes all attacks to 2 hit attacks (become fake multi hit, +10% damage total but divide into 2 hits)
+100 fire element prop damage (and all other props)
Changes basic attack to element prop
% chance to resist negative debuffs
% chance to freeze on attacks
so on and forth.
Different skill augmentations requires different amount of blessed gems to purchase. For example a “-2 second cooldown to all skills” requires 20x blessed gems and a “-5 second cooldown” requires 100x blessed gems. Each skill augmentation only need to be purchased once and is available to all characters in the team. However, each character can only equip up to a maximum of 5 such skill augmentations. Players can change their augmented skills in the character select screen just how how they pair companions with the character. Players can come up with skill augmentation combos such as adding chance to change mob’s element property and having elemental damage that deals more to that property.
Class Mastery Orbs Category
Apart from skill augmentations, players can purchase class mastery orbs. Previously in another post I highlighted about this idea, think it will be great to merge this with THAT. Here is the link to the previous idea (Thanks @Kupomancer for the name):
Basically as a limitation, each class can have a max 5 mastery orbs, with the limit of mastery orbs per character determined by the Rank of the character. A rank8 will have 8 mastery orb slots, a rank 10 will have 10. Each mastery orb can be purchased at a rate of 40 blessed gems per orb. For this purchase, the orb isn’t shared across all characters but is only for individual character. Once assigned to the character, the character can freely change where to put the mastery orb on which class their build has.
Benefits of THAT
Solves the problem of All for One, all characters will benefit when they contribute blessed shards/gems
Gives more reasons to reroll, increasing longevity of the game
Gives IMC a platform to fix classes via Mastery Orbs, MO upgrades can help improve how low ranking classes work in end game
Allows more room for unique builds and creativity in builds with skill augmentations. There can be hundreds of augmentations implemented and with many combinations to choose from, even class builds that are the same will play differently. It also gives collectors another goal to strive for, to collect all the augmentations.
Limited core stat boost also limits power creep.
Cons of THAT
Shards become all the more important, which will affect market and economy.
Players who have few characters will have to find alternative means to get shards (IMC can increase the drop rate and availability of them though)
Saalus will become even more of a neccessity, but then it depends on how IMC implement where the shards will drop.
Content need to be rebalanced to suit the new transcendence
Equipment’s patk/matk will drop back to before, in line with the core stats but pale in comparsion with R8 skill damages, and this will need to be balanced
Compensation to players with existing/legacy transcended equipment
All existing transcended equipment will revert back to their basic forms
Players are compensated with the same amount of blessed shards as per how much they invest in their transcended equipment
All current blessed shards and gems (armor/weapon) will be converted to the new ‘THAT version’ with a 1:1 exchange.
*Edit:
Blessed gem prices are raw and tentative, they are there to just serve to put the idea across.
@STAFF_Letitia Please pay attention to this thread, a lot of good ideas and it is just the truth that transcendence can’t stay in the game as it stands.
This is a great idea, but I see this as a separate feature opposed to a replacement. The only gripe I have after an initial reading is it still favouring running dailies and alts, I would recommend simply removing Saalus and finding an alternate way to implement Blessed Shards. Essentially what you’re doing is creating a new currency in the form of Shards which I love. Great feature idea. This system would serve perfectly to compensate players too.
I agree with this so much. (Without the part of casualified… etc)
Farming materials on R8 monsters was actually a fun experience because you actually had to dodge things, prevent hits, use game mechanics. Now it’s just face-tank the world and kill.
I honestly don’t know the solution, but Transcendence at least on how it works atm isn’t the answer for it. Even thought it’s because Transcendence that my skills viable/competitive with other classes introduced with R8 but that’s another balance talk.
There is something people don’t mention in the forum… level difficulty.
In A-rpg / mmo-A-rpg / hack’n slash / mmo-hack’n slah, different difficulties with scaling give better and or different rewards based on power creep (silver income in rank 8 maps never fixed for example).
For some reason while it already existed since 1997 in diablo 1 and the others games to come almost every time time it does not in tree of savior.
It means when magical damages do 1 players select normal or easy, but in the end the issue around here in Itos will always be exceeded server capacity xD
Normally I would say “Well you can’t just REMOVE something that people have invested time into,” but in this case we all know only ■■■■■■■ RMTers would suffer so get rid of it.
