Tree of Savior Forum

[Poll] Transcendence System

http://imgur.com/Y9l4UrB

You can’t be this slow to the argument.
6 Shards are farmed a day per character. There is a specific gating of Transendence which means in terms of hours it is for instance 700 Shards for Rank 10. That is 116 ‘Days’ worth of Shards. That ignores all the prior levels.
Assume a population of even 500 people. 500 people require 116 days for 1 stage of development. To accelerate that they need another character whether is their own or someone elses to generate those extra shards.

Part of the emphasis on why it was asked to be traded is again because the system wasn’t even designed to max 1 item in even 300 days of constant play.
For weapons that will be outclassed come rank 9 and 10.

You say it’s retarded for these filler characters to come about but where do you think these “excess” shards come from. From characters who exist solely to generate extra shards.

It’s a system that depromotes alts because it requires funneling everything into 1 character. This only serves to take away from the large class combinations we have.

That is not the goal. Tree of Saviors population has been shoddy. If you are creating a system to entertain players and the overall community of players is dropping Month after month with no end in sight you’re not setting up a very attractive environment.

Like I said. XIV also uses a currency system for progression. It also has grinds where people will run for example run 400 runs of an instance to just get a mount. However their system makes it so that about every 3-7 months things get incrementally more accessible to create a positive feedback loop for players whom are behind as they push in new content for players who are ahead. There are several grinds, many of them entirely optional, there are numerous ways to acquire serviceable gear, and for anyone who doesn’t want to grind it is possible to gear up 1 Job (and there are many) within 2 months or less. You can buy gear, you can craft it, run dungeons, or raids. There are numerous options for that specific type of progression. On a Weekly, not Daily Cap. So you’re not obligated to turn in everyday.

Yet in Tree of Savior, gear enhancement takes well over 200 days of investment. “I got it earlier” because that great span of time investment was done by the community of Tree of Savior at the cost of themselves. You simply don’t consider the implications. I’m comparing a game that is continually expanding vs one that is constantly shrinking. The only Super grind progression weapon is the Relic which gets nerfed to be easier every 6 months or so, and it’s simply for non-raiders. If you wish to challenge yourself you will get a better weapon then it. You can’t do the same in Tree of savior because Trans is the end-game…

It means even if we had a stable end-game playerbase the majority could not participate as if it were not for all the filler characters there wouldn’t be enough shard creation for this system to work.
More pressing is that as the playerbase CONTINUES to Shrink, that also decreases the amount of Shards generated. Meaning New characters coming into the game will also have to go through the farming themselves as there becomes a lack of characters generating shards whom aren’t using them.

A game that says it loves alts, where your alts can’t progress because it takes well over 1300 Shards per character just for a primary weapon. Which Translates into almost half a year per character running Saalus every day with a token. Or finding someone else to supplicate that time gating.

If your system is time gated to require almost half a year for an equipment step only changed by the collectiving pooling of character time into 1 character it’s retarded.
You Can reach Trans 10 in 1 day…If you’ve got about 400 people willing to make zero progress that day.

There’s no point in defending the system because it’s already acknowledged at being busted. They’re just too low in cajones to fix it because they’re worried about minority upheavel.

Then Trans is also built as a major gold sink, one which again overall players cannot handle with. So it’s a system that is legitamitely accessible to an extremely small fraction of the community by design which isn’t how you design ■■■■.

In the case of MMO’s for instance often Raids/end-game is done by a small portion of the community but it’s not designed so that for instance 98% of people won’t do end-game it’s just a cultural and social effect.
In this case they’ve actually designed a system where 98% Cannot Trans up because the Silver sink and the Time Sink is not possible.

They want to use it as a filler between content but by opening it up for trade they just created a larger issue.

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As bad as the system is, it is very tricky to deal with before R9 imo. IMC wanted a system to milk the cash cows but it backfired and made a lot of those whales quit instead.

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A simple but not perfect fix:

Make all transcendence level scale only with the attack / defense stats.
Every level provides 5% increase.
Limit the max level to 10 levels.

Shards stay tradable and sellable.

Too late, with upcoming patches shards will become untradable even by team warehouse.

I’m sure they’ll bundle with the transcendence tweaks as well.

I don’t really mind either way.

This is false information

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Yeah there are no actual players in this game who farm for hours to get their stuff .

Basically your whole argument in the nut shell is you want to trash the hardwork of others because you yourself dont have enough time or with brain capacity to be on par with dedicated players. You want it to be casualized everything so all players are the same whether theyre casual or dedicated players. Do you understand that casuals and hardcores are at each other throats? Because you dont know that if you casualized everything, dedicated will get bored and leave the game. All thats remaining playing the game are hello kitty online players chatting everyday. You probably spend so much time in town chatting and trying to act cool instead of playing the game. Thats what you want TOS to be right? Or probably youre that guy in real life slacking in class that always get mad from failing the exams and have a grudge against dedicated students.

All you have are assume asume and asume, but clear not happening. Why? Because shard generation is continuous process as long as there are players playing the game. So does players coming in of course its me assuming youre not dooming this game XDD. You want to stop the generation of shards or people coming to justify your failed logic.

Then demand and supply? Then stop farming it? Do i force you to run it? If you dont run it, do you really think you could stop people from getting high transcendence? If no people running it then it means people like me wont have high transcendence? Thats so shallow of you, no one is forcing you to run, even the game or IMC. Why do you still run it even though you look stupid? Its like youre asking yourself why youre garbage collector when you could be working in a multi-dollar industry.

ZZZ a bunch of ad hominems with a straight false argument by pretending players will leave the game by making a sensible system when players are statistically leaving the game faster than new players come in, every month for almost a year with the current state of the game. That has not been helped by the state of transcendence or the ability to trade it.

The assumption was just an example, and by example I mean I isolated a situation to keep the state of transendence understandable for anyone that reads the post.
Throwing your hands in your ears to pretend the game doesn’t work explicitly just makes a discussion with you one-sided and fruitless.

No one of the community is trying to stop anyone from getting transcended equipment. What is with your strawman arguments? Can you stick to the discussion? I’m not going to defend a position that I am not coming from.

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1 Like

Oh common it was me not baiting your strawman argument because it suck so bad it hurts my eyes. Your example is plain out of question, contradictory to what is currently happening.

Seriously all you have is grief, not providing any solution for IMC to take. all you have is cry. Have a shame and give a solution so IMC could use your brain to further improve the game.

There was no strawman on my part.
You directly on multiple on accounts want to discuss the market within our discussion of transcendence as a solution. So I deliberately point out that for those shards to be sold they like any other shard have to be generated by someone running Saalus. Since progression is valuable to everyone, a filler character whose purpose is to generate Saalus shards and not use them exists. The market does not accelerate the generation of shards or the commitment it takes to get transendence it simply pools them together. 500 characters cannot all transcend their weapons any faster because they’re trading amongst each other. They can only pool that resource into some of that 500 acquiring it earlier but collectively it takes the exact same amount of time, which is well over 200 days worth of runs per character.

As such the marketplace does nothing to the fundamental issues of transcendence, but IMC also is aware of this issue and they’ve made a couple of changes to try and alleviate this qualm such as the reduction of gems required for armor and accessories.

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Like i said, this argument is false and cant be use for practical manners because its so out of question why would you give limited players playing the game? Huh? When we have open server where new players are coming in and out. Give another example because this one suck so bad.

Our economy in game like real world is based from continuous generation of players coming in or playing it. Like insurance companies using the future to fund their investment to continue their services. Pension system also use this to name a few.

Players coming in and out does not affect the situation.

Whether you have 500 characters , 200 new players come in, 300 players come out. The characters that remain all still need a specific amount of shards converted to gems to reach X stage of transendence. Those Shards are again formed at most 6 per day per character (assuming they reroll cubes) so again regardless of who stays and who remains that time commitment has to be performed within the community no matter how it fluctuates. The Marketplace only circulates that effort it cannot change the generation of the shards and because of that it does not gear up the playerbase any faster unless again players use filler characters with no intention of ever gearing them to fuel their or someone elses transendance.

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I means more supply in the market for people to buy. Even if you dont farm in saalus or shards. You could still complete your transcendence. Shards are tradable, marketable. Dont exclude that on your example or argument.

Where to get the supplies? from future generation farming the place. Where to get the shards of future generation? From the future of future generation. “When will it stop?” Why would it stop?

I’m not excluding it, I’ve stated this so many times it’s giving my an aneurysm.

Those players come in but if they reach end-game they also transcend their equipment. Since you need gems, and they need gems. Again the time commitment is fixed. 6 shards a day per character (assuming rerolling cubes with tokens). You need 1000’s of shards for Stage 10.

You are not accelerating the generation of shards. The requirement is the same for any character that upgrades their equipment. The only way to “accelerate” the generation through the market is to create characters that Do not Progress, aka as I’ve mentioned throughout…Filler characters. Outside of that the supply and the demand is fixed.

Now if we want to speak logistics. The playerbase of the game is shrinking. You do not simply have level 240 players paying into 330 players. Then a cycle continues whee those 240 players reach 330 and get supplied shards by new 240 players, as the population of the game is shrinking and has been for nearly a year.

If you wanted to make a comparison with our pensions…our economy works on the presumption of growth. A Shrinking population however creates less demand for objects and without advancements in production due to a shrinking playerbase the supply also shrinks.

You’re simply mistaken on all fronts.

The marketplace does not accelerate shard demands as it simply circulating the shards that everyone needs into a smaller population. It doesn’t work like a pension system either because we have a shrinking population. Even if all the new players were staying and the people leaving consisted only of upper level players then that only means that the idea that transcendence is retaining us is also false. Going even deeper into the problem, these cubes often are not rerolled as to sell them for a profit in the current state of things means that rerolling a cube is a loss of money. So instead of the 6 per day per day we have characters producing less then 6 shards on their Saalus runs.

Ultimately we come full circle where there needs to be more alts to fuel main characters due to a variety of factors I have discussed with you in this post and others. An alt-unfriendly game.

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Then why we have so many shards in the auction? if you think the system prevents future generation to complete their transcendence? When we will stop seeing the supply of shards because of shrinking population?

We Have Characters that exist
Solely.
To
Farm
Shards.
Characters
That
exist
not
to
progress
their
own
equipment

Why do I have to say this **again **when we’ve had so many words on this already

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What if that character or players sold his shards for now but still got to trans 10 later? Im the prime example because i dont use my shard generation to transcend my equips.

The
time
commitment
for
Trans 10 is fixed.
The 700, the 10, the 40, etc shards still need to be generated
You can forsake all of your progression, and then decide to start it.
It will still require the exact same amount of shards generated through fixed player effort because it is a capped dailly. Where players whom sell their shards also do not generate even the 6 per day as it is a profit loss to spend 300,000 on the cube at current prices.

Again
you
do
not
need
to
Generate shards

SOMEONE
else
is
forsaking
their
own
character’s
progression
for
yours.

5 Likes