Tree of Savior Forum

[Poll] Transcendence System

Yep I agree, no one is equal. I do believe that the concept of status, power and wealth in ToS can be presented in a much better way though, at least through methods in which everyone has a chance at without trampling onto other players/characters’ chances.

@fatedhour
Each player has their own method and way to approach the game. This is the beauty of a MMO, the freedom of having no set path and everyone is free to use their own methods they like to progress.

I actually liked how merchant players like jynxie and our guild’s own Wingzard plays. They have a set goal and look for ways to leverage the game’s economy to get nearer to their goal. Not everyone can do that. :3

I wouldn’t call them griefers, but I too have yet to see a viable alternative. I don’t blame the community for not having viable ideas though, this is such a complex issue. Not only do we have to find a system that works, and not just mechanically, but in a way that actually constitutes as gameplay, but recommend compensation and an actual way to move from the current system.

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I have presented one in the other topic, sort of. In rank 9 they will be able to balance transcendence properly by doing a power creep on other systems to match the power of transcendence. Yes power creep is bad but other big budget games like diablo 3 also uses power creep regularly as the main way to balance without resorting to the nerf bat which many dont like.

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I really don’t see that as viable. We shouldn’t settle for power creep that balances problematic design choices. TOS shouldn’t be mediocre, it should be phenomenal.

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It doesn’t help casuals, this game is not casual. IMC planted things this way, they can´t go back without perjudicing most of the hardcore players, and those are the ones who put the pennies here. Unless they wanted to lose these last, but I doubt It’d be a great idea for them.

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Come to think of it, besides the transcendence idea which I talked about previously, I have another idea as an alternative to transcendence. No spectacular title as of now, I’ll just name it:

"The Household Attributes, Transcendence " a.k.a THAT

How THAT works

Similarly like how we get blessed shards and gems, through saalus (or some other way in which IMC dictates in future). Players are able to buy/sell/trade blessed shards/gems just like now.

Blessed gems are used to upgrade the team household. Household upgrades can be divided into 3 categories:

  1. Core Stats Category

Upgrades are patk, matk, evasion, stamina, hp, sp etc. These upgrades go upwards to a max limit of +100% and are exchanged in denominations of 2% per 10 blessed gems. The upgrades are like the guild’s forges and academies, and will affect all characters in the game account/team. So players can farm shards, contribute to this core stat and every character will benefit from it.

  1. Skill Augmentation Category

This are the so called ‘quasi-equip’ category. Each character will be given a max of 5 slots to add skill augmentations. A skill augmentation can be like the following:

  • -2 secs cooldown to all skills
  • Changes all attacks to 2 hit attacks (become fake multi hit, +10% damage total but divide into 2 hits)
  • +100 fire element prop damage (and all other props)
  • Changes basic attack to element prop
  • % chance to resist negative debuffs
  • % chance to freeze on attacks
  • so on and forth.

Different skill augmentations requires different amount of blessed gems to purchase. For example a “-2 second cooldown to all skills” requires 20x blessed gems and a “-5 second cooldown” requires 100x blessed gems. Each skill augmentation only need to be purchased once and is available to all characters in the team. However, each character can only equip up to a maximum of 5 such skill augmentations. Players can change their augmented skills in the character select screen just how how they pair companions with the character. Players can come up with skill augmentation combos such as adding chance to change mob’s element property and having elemental damage that deals more to that property.

  1. Class Mastery Orbs Category

Apart from skill augmentations, players can purchase class mastery orbs. Previously in another post I highlighted about this idea, think it will be great to merge this with THAT. Here is the link to the previous idea (Thanks @Kupomancer for the name):

Basically as a limitation, each class can have a max 5 mastery orbs, with the limit of mastery orbs per character determined by the Rank of the character. A rank8 will have 8 mastery orb slots, a rank 10 will have 10. Each mastery orb can be purchased at a rate of 40 blessed gems per orb. For this purchase, the orb isn’t shared across all characters but is only for individual character. Once assigned to the character, the character can freely change where to put the mastery orb on which class their build has.

Benefits of THAT

  • Solves the problem of All for One, all characters will benefit when they contribute blessed shards/gems

  • Gives more reasons to reroll, increasing longevity of the game

  • Gives IMC a platform to fix classes via Mastery Orbs, MO upgrades can help improve how low ranking classes work in end game

  • Allows more room for unique builds and creativity in builds with skill augmentations. There can be hundreds of augmentations implemented and with many combinations to choose from, even class builds that are the same will play differently. It also gives collectors another goal to strive for, to collect all the augmentations.

  • Limited core stat boost also limits power creep.

Cons of THAT

  • Shards become all the more important, which will affect market and economy.

  • Players who have few characters will have to find alternative means to get shards (IMC can increase the drop rate and availability of them though)

  • Saalus will become even more of a neccessity, but then it depends on how IMC implement where the shards will drop.

  • Content need to be rebalanced to suit the new transcendence

  • Equipment’s patk/matk will drop back to before, in line with the core stats but pale in comparsion with R8 skill damages, and this will need to be balanced

Compensation to players with existing/legacy transcended equipment

  • All existing transcended equipment will revert back to their basic forms

  • Players are compensated with the same amount of blessed shards as per how much they invest in their transcended equipment

  • All current blessed shards and gems (armor/weapon) will be converted to the new ‘THAT version’ with a 1:1 exchange.

*Edit:
Blessed gem prices are raw and tentative, they are there to just serve to put the idea across.

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@STAFF_Letitia Please pay attention to this thread, a lot of good ideas and it is just the truth that transcendence can’t stay in the game as it stands.

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This is a great idea, but I see this as a separate feature opposed to a replacement. The only gripe I have after an initial reading is it still favouring running dailies and alts, I would recommend simply removing Saalus and finding an alternate way to implement Blessed Shards. Essentially what you’re doing is creating a new currency in the form of Shards which I love. Great feature idea. This system would serve perfectly to compensate players too.

I agree with this so much. (Without the part of casualified… etc)

Farming materials on R8 monsters was actually a fun experience because you actually had to dodge things, prevent hits, use game mechanics. Now it’s just face-tank the world and kill.

I honestly don’t know the solution, but Transcendence at least on how it works atm isn’t the answer for it. Even thought it’s because Transcendence that my skills viable/competitive with other classes introduced with R8 but that’s another balance talk.

I think or IMO the shards > gem on cube. So remove shards drop whole gem instead. Case close

@STAFF_Max please tell the dev team to remove the transcendence system, it’s toxic and it pretty much forced all my friends that were newbies to quit!

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There is something people don’t mention in the forum… level difficulty.
In A-rpg / mmo-A-rpg / hack’n slash / mmo-hack’n slah, different difficulties with scaling give better and or different rewards based on power creep (silver income in rank 8 maps never fixed for example).
For some reason while it already existed since 1997 in diablo 1 and the others games to come almost every time time it does not in tree of savior.
It means when magical damages do 1 players select normal or easy, but in the end the issue around here in Itos will always be exceeded server capacity xD

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Normally I would say “Well you can’t just REMOVE something that people have invested time into,” but in this case we all know only ■■■■■■■ RMTers would suffer so get rid of it.

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http://imgur.com/Y9l4UrB

You can’t be this slow to the argument.
6 Shards are farmed a day per character. There is a specific gating of Transendence which means in terms of hours it is for instance 700 Shards for Rank 10. That is 116 ‘Days’ worth of Shards. That ignores all the prior levels.
Assume a population of even 500 people. 500 people require 116 days for 1 stage of development. To accelerate that they need another character whether is their own or someone elses to generate those extra shards.

Part of the emphasis on why it was asked to be traded is again because the system wasn’t even designed to max 1 item in even 300 days of constant play.
For weapons that will be outclassed come rank 9 and 10.

You say it’s retarded for these filler characters to come about but where do you think these “excess” shards come from. From characters who exist solely to generate extra shards.

It’s a system that depromotes alts because it requires funneling everything into 1 character. This only serves to take away from the large class combinations we have.

That is not the goal. Tree of Saviors population has been shoddy. If you are creating a system to entertain players and the overall community of players is dropping Month after month with no end in sight you’re not setting up a very attractive environment.

Like I said. XIV also uses a currency system for progression. It also has grinds where people will run for example run 400 runs of an instance to just get a mount. However their system makes it so that about every 3-7 months things get incrementally more accessible to create a positive feedback loop for players whom are behind as they push in new content for players who are ahead. There are several grinds, many of them entirely optional, there are numerous ways to acquire serviceable gear, and for anyone who doesn’t want to grind it is possible to gear up 1 Job (and there are many) within 2 months or less. You can buy gear, you can craft it, run dungeons, or raids. There are numerous options for that specific type of progression. On a Weekly, not Daily Cap. So you’re not obligated to turn in everyday.

Yet in Tree of Savior, gear enhancement takes well over 200 days of investment. “I got it earlier” because that great span of time investment was done by the community of Tree of Savior at the cost of themselves. You simply don’t consider the implications. I’m comparing a game that is continually expanding vs one that is constantly shrinking. The only Super grind progression weapon is the Relic which gets nerfed to be easier every 6 months or so, and it’s simply for non-raiders. If you wish to challenge yourself you will get a better weapon then it. You can’t do the same in Tree of savior because Trans is the end-game…

It means even if we had a stable end-game playerbase the majority could not participate as if it were not for all the filler characters there wouldn’t be enough shard creation for this system to work.
More pressing is that as the playerbase CONTINUES to Shrink, that also decreases the amount of Shards generated. Meaning New characters coming into the game will also have to go through the farming themselves as there becomes a lack of characters generating shards whom aren’t using them.

A game that says it loves alts, where your alts can’t progress because it takes well over 1300 Shards per character just for a primary weapon. Which Translates into almost half a year per character running Saalus every day with a token. Or finding someone else to supplicate that time gating.

If your system is time gated to require almost half a year for an equipment step only changed by the collectiving pooling of character time into 1 character it’s retarded.
You Can reach Trans 10 in 1 day…If you’ve got about 400 people willing to make zero progress that day.

There’s no point in defending the system because it’s already acknowledged at being busted. They’re just too low in cajones to fix it because they’re worried about minority upheavel.

Then Trans is also built as a major gold sink, one which again overall players cannot handle with. So it’s a system that is legitamitely accessible to an extremely small fraction of the community by design which isn’t how you design ■■■■.

In the case of MMO’s for instance often Raids/end-game is done by a small portion of the community but it’s not designed so that for instance 98% of people won’t do end-game it’s just a cultural and social effect.
In this case they’ve actually designed a system where 98% Cannot Trans up because the Silver sink and the Time Sink is not possible.

They want to use it as a filler between content but by opening it up for trade they just created a larger issue.

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As bad as the system is, it is very tricky to deal with before R9 imo. IMC wanted a system to milk the cash cows but it backfired and made a lot of those whales quit instead.

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A simple but not perfect fix:

Make all transcendence level scale only with the attack / defense stats.
Every level provides 5% increase.
Limit the max level to 10 levels.

Shards stay tradable and sellable.

Too late, with upcoming patches shards will become untradable even by team warehouse.

I’m sure they’ll bundle with the transcendence tweaks as well.

I don’t really mind either way.

This is false information

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Yeah there are no actual players in this game who farm for hours to get their stuff .