Tree of Savior Forum

Policy Update Regarding RMT

Right. The above is PARTIALLY CORRECT. This exact sort of argument about item value etc has been thrown around for ages in EVE-Online (Spreadsheets online, boys). As a long-time player (since launch) in THAT particular market-simulator, i’d say I have browsed, argued, and thrown around enough insults over economy arguments to cover the entire TOS population in digital crap.

I browse things like this for fun https://www.eveonline.com/article/pa9fr1/monthly-economic-report-may-2018

Enjoy the link!

The specifics:

To add on - any sort of currency (silver) generation method, be it monster killing, quest running, NPC fondling, dungeon mashing, etc. I refer to these as currency faucets / taps (region language)

This is correct. The balance between faucets/taps and the necessary effort required is important. Players will always flock to the most efficient method (or the most brain-dead one).

This is incorrect. An exact comparison would be how the central bank of a country controls the amount of currency in circulation, not people’s jobs. The central bank’s control of the amount of the country’s currency present in the economy is how the currency faucets and currency sinks control the amount of in-game money (in this case, silver) present.

Here are some stuff for you all to read up upon, if you’re so inclined.


See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe

This is correct - Excessive bots is the same as uncontrolled government ‘printing’ of currency - Again, see Zimbabwe.

Semi-correct. TP can be compared to…an easy example would be another country’s currency, versus your own. The TP << >> Silver trade can be compared to foreign currency exchange.

Exchanging diamond anvils for gear is… barter trade! My 5 apples for your 2 chickens, good sir.

Correct. TP trade (excessively) only harms the values of the TP items. The total silver circulation and ‘value’ does not change. TP shop is a mess, yeah.

10/10, 5 Stars, Laima stamp of approval.

Edit: RNGesus Dice. That was long, and I really hope it educates people here on where exactly is their stance, and what they (and others) are arguing for/against.

Arguing a point when you yourself is uninformed is…just… :tired:

Edit2: @Nekorin has nice ideas. Also i’ve gotten a little busy IRL, so i’m stepping out for now. Please read up on the above economics stuff.

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Never told it is.

And they affect economy.

If it’s possible or exists somewhere it already affects economy there.

And I never disagreed with that. But the simple fact of skipping taxes and removing competition affects economy.

Good point. There’s no “another matter” here, game rules should consider actions as whole and RMT 1:1 allows ugly things to happen even if no one is doing it.

And it appear in large quantities in ToS as well, especially in SA and SEA, affecting the servers economy.

SEA is more affected by silver-based RMT, thus the lower ‘value’ of silver (higher market silver prices).

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Yet still affected by 1:1 RMT. They exist and affect economy there.

If you put it that way, the other 2 servers (NA/EU) also do have them existing and being affected.

Existing and whether they are actually present in large enough numbers to be worth enforcement effort are two separate matters.

Edit: Right. It is lunch, and i’m out. Back tomorrow.

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I’m going to list an idea, and I’m sorry if it’s been mentioned before. I can’t be bothered to read through 400 posts right now and post.

I remember that IMC never wanted to step into Captcha territory, but I think with the bot reporting system they currently have combined with it, could stand to be a pretty decent method of finding bots.

Say for instance, a bot is reported enough times (by enough people) to warrant them getting a Captcha. You can’t attack at all while Captcha’d, and summons also immediately would stop or be destroyed instantly. The player would get unlimited chances to get it correct, but it changes every fail.
If you fail 3 tries, a GM would be notified, but you can still continue to try as many times as it would take. What this does is create an endless loop, causing bots to get stuck unable to continue until solving.
It’s just an idea, and could use tweaking by other community members.

The problem with bots in general, is that time is not much of a factor to them at all.

Normal people can only play for so long, and bots (made by players) are obviously made to circumvent that limitation, or exploit that human limitation for money (bots made by gold sellers). So, bans, timeouts, and suspensions only do so much to them because they can just make more.
In the end, it’s always going to be an uphill battle of getting rid of them. The payout for a bot is just always better than the loss of time spent making one.

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Randy faked the photo. http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=a6cb732d65092a34d3aefc0b3860663389cd1372.158141&fmt=ela 1
Black rectangles all over where my name should be. It’s the wrong name btw.

http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=f53bc6fe89570bac1883e93a1c85fc2e09e39dd4.66241&fmt=ela
Photo given by a guildmember of lotus 2 months ago. 100% no anomalies. showing randy selling cockatfeather

puts on shades gets the popcorn

I saw you type trash for like 100 posts straight. Probably why people after you thought anything goes.

Let me direct you here and hopefully you stop polluting this thread as well.

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The damage control is top notch tier, even for tree of retard standards. Didn’t know it was possible to be THIS pathetic.

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haHAA the same typhoonz who openly admitted he RMT’d and ran bots is trying his damn hardest to backpedal :distinguished: :distinguished:

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Like I mention long reply ago . If imc keep banning the player bot is become a dangerous existence any player can buy bot to buy off an item from player cost them to be RMT and get ban I hope you guys make sense . RMT is never ever die off unless the game never make a single penny or item is id bound even though it it’s ppl can also sold their id as count this as RMT . I can see some don’t spend a single penny in tos also share the thoughts are funny ones . You can reduce to very low RMT activities but no one can stop one player that wish to sell off their item . Hope you guys wakeup from this dream .

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This thread is gold.

lemur

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You are arguing semantics. I am straight up telling you the definition of RMT, as someone who has played MMOs since 2003.

Since you are going to argue semantics, here we go:

A hypocrite is someone who claims to have moral standards and then fails to follow them. My moral standard is that RMT is bad, as it has always been defined.

Also, keep in mind you are in a thread created by IMC about their RMT policies. Do you think that they view selling TP items on the MP as RMTing? I think not.

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So Randy and Typhoon both RMT. That’s what I concluded from reading all this.

None of which will get banned anyways.

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From my experience reporting some bots I doubt you’ll get many people reporting them. For example, bots on Istora Ruins might be totally ignored by most players who warps directly to ET NPC. We’ve also build a “let’s just ignore bots” mindset.

So, @STAFF_Yuri, adding to Tankhime’s idea I’d like to suggest a kind of technical alternative:
Instead of actual Captchas, you can make simpler and faster challenges that appear on the screen on the C++ side of the client if they meet certain criteria such as: Extended time on low FPS (anti-VM with bot), not in Town (allow afk crafting/fishing/etc while playing something else or CPU intensive tasks) and other in-game things such as account age, monsters killed within the map.

This suggestion tries to follow Google Recaptcha’s “Easy on Humans, Hard on Bots” so the challenge must follow the same idea.

Thinking on this, something should be rendered on the screen within DirectX/Graphics context so it’s hard to intercept and detect. The challenge could be a simple box and a button that positions themselves randomly each time they appear. The affected player will be able to play normally and should not receive any Lua-side notification and mouse movement is recorded on each main loop state and matched with normal users movement on normal FPS gameplay. Having an irregular/random shape could help to avoid detection from computer vision algorithms.

Any suspicious behavior automatically flags the account and disconnects them temporarily after a random time.

One alternative for clicks could be asking the user to press a certain key combination according to their game mode: Keyboard (with or w/o Mouse) and Controller, as long they can’t get this easily from the challenge box.

P.S.: The mouse record part could be ignored / changed, the point is understanding if the mouse was moved to a certain point inside a, for example, VM, or simply clicked at the coordinates.

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You understand how much money and manpower that would require

that would register me and many others with low end compu as bots

I mean, do you play on 2-5 FPS? lol

I used to all the time :expressionless:

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@STAFF_Yuri

You need to change

Strike 1

  • GM message warning

to

Strike 1

  • GM message warning or temporary ban

right now.

Some stupid people think that means RMT is allowed now and start doing it. Bling%20Popo

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