Do you feel better if people call you P2W instead of RMT? If so you can feel free to call yourself that, still RMT in every level.
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Sorry to disappoint you but I’m poor enough as well not lazy enough - I don’t want to replace progression with money. USD to my currency also doesn’t make these things any cheap. Last time I “supported” the game was buying Hairs on sale.
Now, I have nothing to do with it if you want to pull a strawman calling TP<->Silver RMT so you can, for whatever reason, shift the focus away from people who complain that IMC should not fall to unhealthy milking practices, like, ahem, someone who wrote this:
And I do agree with you that P2WIN things are just as bad as RMT and affects economy as well.
That’s actually most of my posts in this thread if you stop to read them.
Ideally we’d have cash shop only with cosmetic things. That’s not the case and the game already have some P2WIN examples but it’s still not deep down on this path - and I definitely do not want the game to fall there.
And this is the whole reason I’m discussing and voicing my opinions here, so we don’t have a whale-only feedback making STAFFs/Devs think we want their product to follow the wrong path.
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Personally I think a much better way to solve this issue is to find ways to decouple the over-reliance of in-game silver in all aspects of the game. One way is to approach gear acquisition and enhancements in a way that rewards players for their effort involved in playing the game and not just throwing in game silver for the upgrades; which BOTs can easily farm and players can easily trade RL cash for.
For example, what if we change how Velcoffer gear is acquired? (Yeah I do know it is too late to implement this for Vel but it can be for future high level content.)
Instead of having players cough out silver to “buy in” for the equipment, have the base equipment available to all the players easily. By easily I mean recipes to such equipment are sold by the NPC and require around 8-10 hours of normal map farming to craft.
The catch here is these equipment have limiters. Things like anvil/transcendance limit, inchor capabilities and set bonuses need to be “unlocked” via equipment upgrades, which require Velcoffer fragments. Like:
- Increase limit of anvil level by 1 : 1 Fragment (2 fragments for level 11-20)
- Increase limit of transcendance level by 1 : 1 Fragment
- Unlock inchor upgrade : 5 Fragment
- Get a random set bonus : 1 Fragment
Velcoffer gears that receive any form/level of fragment upgrade will be bound to account (can’t be traded). Anvil upgrades of such gear is 100% guaranteed and require the same type of Velcoffer gear to upgrade (which can be easily crafted), with a max of +20.
Velcoffer runs cubes are limited to 2 runs per week per character (same) and cubes can’t be rerolled. Each run yields 2 fragments. Similarly like Saalus, fragments get a diminishing yield when a player runs Velcoffer over 5 characters per weeks.
What this does is while it still require players to spend almost the same amount/if not more time to get a fully upgraded piece of gear, it removes silver from the equation. It rewards players who put in time and effort to acquire and “nuture” their equipment without giving off the feeling that other players can just buy into the same power level as them just by paying RL cash, which is the main source of player discontent against players who RMT.
And it also give players who prefer the $ > time route some leeway too by allowing them to purchase crafted Velcoffer (unupgraded) gear from the market to use as materials for anvil enhancement. They still have to run the dungeon themselves to unlock anvil enhancement levels though.
With end game gear made like this, players have lesser excuse to consider RMT. And IMC has a good way to limit anvil enhancement, remove gears from the game (via bind to account and equipment removal through the “new anvil enhancement”).
@STAFF_Yuri While setting up restrictions to regulate/deter the community not to approach RMT yields results for the short term, do consider the option of using design (via game elements) to lead the community to what you want them to be instead. It is a much harder route to go but it is much more effective.
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Yes I agree, to a degree. Does IMC make any money on this new model? We all speak with our hearts, but IMC only speaks in profits and business. IMC has investors who aren’t going to take less profit for the same damn game.
Every single game has rules against RMT; Whether they are truly enforced is another issue. Even a big company like blizzard either chose not to do it, or didn’t manage to do it.
Please reconsider this statement. It is irrelevant. You have already stereotyped RMT as cheaters in all aspects of the game. If we are talking about “abusers”, they might be both RMTer or f2p. At the same time i also can point out that many f2p have used bots or exploits to abuse events.Shall i say f2p is unhealthy too ?
In fact i assure u the extra fat whales and heavy RMT are probably the least likely group to run a bot themselves
It just so happens that the group who RMT the most are the ones who contribute the most to the company’s revenue.
if bots are limited and silver RMT is only available at a very ridiculous prices there will be a swing in the time X money equation. RMT will still go on, but only a small group of rich kids will still find the rates reasonable, while others will find investing time in game more worthwhile.
Honestly, if no one can pay the seller silvers for the item he is selling, he’ll accept cash offers. Especially if its something he spammed real life currency ( eg giltine wings or items crafted via DA from boxes ). RMT between players barely affect the market prices. cant understand why you still have this concept
Well they can finally have more use of the “ET/Velcoffer” bonus run voucher (with full rewards) in letitica cubes for more sales.
Should players want they can just gacha and run 20+ Velcoffer runs daily (courtesy of vouchers) to get the gears. At least it funds IMC instead of BOTs and other players can’t really say much on p2w as they still work for their gear.
I don’t see your point…?
Priority/Frustration list doesn’t mean that anything on the top X isn’t worth spending time on.
Your poll only shows that yes, people don’t like bots/RMT. So does your second poll. Opinion of players on a single matter doesn’t show anything about the overall ranking.
What would be an overall ranking list (example)
- RNGhancement system being one of the largest sources of frustration and hair loss.
- VGA errors, VGA errors, more VGA errors. A VGA a day keeps ET40 away.
- Everyone loves latency issues. Nothing like a 3s delay in CM5 and above.
- Less than 10 FPS in town. Whoop dee doo slideshows!
- Bots, bots, Tree of Bots.
- 2% drop rate and no drops after 500 kills11!1!!1???
- Dungeon Leeches & Friends.
All your polls represent is this:
Qn. Is X from above list an issue?
A. Yes.
Using a real life example: Imagine your car is completely borked. The following parts need work
Tyres/Tires (Region spelling)
Air filter
Brakes
Gearbox
Engine oil needs replenishment
Now, as a priority:
1 to 3 is definitely your Tyres/Tires, Brakes, and Gearbox.
4 and 5 is your air filter, and topping off your engine oil.
Your linking and creation of a poll only tells me the following (using an example poll):
Your air filter is dirty. Should you replace your air filter?
Option 1: Definitely!
Option 2: Maybe if I try cleaning the air filter, it’ll work a bit longer?
Option 3: What is an air filter?
It does not tell me anything about its priority.
Note: I’m not a schoolteacher. If someone else can create a better example to replace mine, please do.
3 Likes
Sounds like a fair idea to me.
But probably can already foresee a new thread raging over p2win aspects and how it tilts the market
As an addendum to @Nekorin 's ideas, or a modification - using an idea borrowed from Dungeons & Dragons Online.
100% (No RNG) anvil/enhancement upgrades - Locks weapon to character/team
You can sell the upgraded weapon, but you have to -pay TP- (In DDO, they use Astral Shards, cash currency, pretty much).
So yeah, the weapon will still be ‘tradable’ in a sense, and IMC gets a ‘cut’ of the transaction every time.
Which is again the culture I just explained. People feel that putting money = will not get banned because they’re “supporting” the game.
I’m not saying in a generic way but this is definitely observable.
They will definitely accept cash offers if they have the same mentality as yours. I already got offered USD for some items and never accepted even though USD is valued like 3~4 times my currency.
I really can’t understand why you think everyone should be fine with going against terms of service and keeping item’s values insanely high.
If i spent 500 to get my giltine wings or 500 to spam leticia’s to get DA to craft a weapon.
Why should I lower the price tag on my item ?
Are you telling me to lower from 2b to 1.5b for example just because no one can afford to pay for them in silvers?
Exactly.
Unless you prefer to go against terms of service. Is that really this common in SEA servers compared to other servers?
yea rmt tends to be more common in sea server due to the culture there
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With regards to this you are absolutely making no sense at all.
So example I spent real life money via TP to get the item. 500 to get a pair of giltine wings
And i must lower my prices so that people can afford to buy them in silvers?
In other words , my 500$'s value is decided by buyers in game. If they cant afford it i shall depreciate my own money’s value ?
Is this what you are telling me ?
Its even worse in the case of +21 up miki weapons with many pots left. Even if you bought 20 DA from leticias, there is still the rng factor. So i’ll probably price it at the cost of 30DA and up.
DAs cost me 100m each in game. That will be 3b.
If no one can pay me 3b i shall price it at 2b or even 1.5b and take a loss ? at the cost of my real life currency ?
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In practice yes, or you can just keep the item to yourself.
Or then, risk a ban according to terms of service and new policies, which applies to all servers independently of cultures.
If we are really talking about pay to win vs non pay to win, you must add a clause: said cosmetic items must be untradable. People make mad cash with wings and fashionista items.
Much of that cash they got is mine. (Funny how I’m not a fashion victim IRL)
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@Rxlxk @Seiran And everyone else interested in this whole argument brought up.
I do believe I see the issue here. And it has nothing to do with RMT’ing, terms of service, botting, etc.
@Seiran is laboring under the assumption that everyone would be willing to drop the ‘list price’ based on other players’ ability to purchase. This is also under the assumption that we WANT to sell the item, and want the liquidity.
@Rxlxk and I, do not care if anyone is able to pay our asking price.
And in a subsequent post, @Seiran gets the idea. By the way, it has nothing to do with the following:
If people cannot afford it, then people cannot afford it. Whether or not they want to buy silver, buy TP for silver, offer real life money is none of our business. (Aaaand why would we even take real life money?)
Our asking price is just that. Our asking price. If no one can afford the price, then we’ll keep it to ourselves, chuck it on an alt, etc.
If folks want to RMT to pay our asking price, that is completely not in any fault of ours. They can craft their own +16s and above. We’re not the only ones making these items. Same goes for Gilly’s Wings. If no one pays our asking price, we’ll just stick it on an alt.
Edit: By the way, the break even point calculated for a +16 Masinios Bow was…what, 283mil?
What is considered ‘insanely high’?
Please answer the above.
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except alot of times, if you dont want to stick it to an alt, alot of people are forced to lower the price or do direct trade at a lower price then what was asked because they cant manage to sell it.
its quite common, but it doesnt happen all the time. and this is for a variety of items not just weapons or costumes btw
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@Mikumo Yes, that is what happens, when the item does not sell, and we want to get rid of it. We’ll drop the price. (I do that on my +16s that don’t move, heck, I list them for 50-60m or so, that’s barely break even)
But in this case, the argument from @Seiran is for ‘insanely priced’ weapons and items like Gilly Wings. These things have prices that’re stupid high because of their rarity. The makers of these weapons aren’t going to drop them just because no one can pay that price ‘right now’.
Its like buying Excalibur or Durandal or what have you in a RPG, y’know? That 999999 purchase price isn’t going to drop because no one is gonna touch it.
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So you are just going to break the game rules to profit then?