And as we keep saying, we are not. We don’t even need the real life cash!
Edit: Most of the folks actually selling items for real life cash are not the same ones who just spent it upgrading their items.
Edit2:
A problem exists somewhere, and it is not us.
You are not but some are. Also some whales are buying these high-end items with cash from other players.
And if you’re actually the buyer as it happens with some, the problem is there.
Edit:
For the record, if people are decent they would try to sell items for in-game items or in-game silver. There are people in Klaipeda trying to sell Marnox, Mirtis and Zaura legendary cards for in-game things, not RMT.
I frankly wouldn’t call these folks whales.
Which is what most of us do. Or list our items at. You just won’t see us list Gilly’s on the market. I want specific items for it, as I said above. Most folks who own the wings wouldn’t trade it for more common things, either.
PS. Legend cards aren’t as uncommon, and their supply just keeps going up over time.
Then you’re not part of my point.
Once you read them you’ll know I’m directing my comments at those who participates in 1:1 RMT and comments like these:
Which is bad. If you don’t consider RMT you can just keep the item for yourself or wait until someone can afford, but that’s not what happens 100% of time in practice.
In a scenario where there’s no RMT and you want to sell for whatever reason, price goes down - or the item doesn’t get sold. It doesn’t magically keep its value if you want to get rid of it.
In fact, many people who gets these high-end items sometimes just wants them for the profit value, not for keeping. And if you take too long something similar can be added making the first one lose value. Plus the very fact that more people would be trying to sell the same item might make the price go lower compared to what happens when someone RMT it.
In which case i’ll have to disagree with him regarding the ‘selling for real cash’ portion.
Although that (item << >> real cash) has no effect on the silver economy.
I just gave you an example:
With RMT out of question, the items available starts to be higher than the demand (or higher than the number of people who can afford).
Btw 1:1 RMT literally does nothing to the game economy in this case because RMT silvers is not involved. Seller spends $$ in TP to get tonnes of cubes. Buyer dosent have silver, skips the RMT silver process, offers cash terms. Deal is done.
Buyer is happy
Seller is happy
IMC is happy
As for f2p players cashing out the 20 hours a day they spend in game. I am neutral with regards to that.
Since RMT silver is not involved as well, general state of the game is not affected. That is their incentive to play the game. Their hard work and time for your silvers , if not cash.
It is not legal by the books but does it really ruin the game?
You must understand that high end items come with 'high end risks". Be it your time, or money through cash shop. Or even crafting a +21 with no diamond anvil takes alot of RNG and who knows how many failed attempts. It is only natural they are seeking profit. Why do it otherwise ?
I am not pushing RMT, nor have I sold anything for cash
just stating that the fact if seller is determined to sell instead of keeping his item. You cant really blame for accepting cash offers if there is no decent silvers offer.
Read post above, it does.
Ehhh, I wouldn’t call an item ‘insanely-priced’ if there was more than 1 person selling it at a point of time.
I mean, its not like you see multiple +21 weapons of the same category suddenly pop onto the market.
Or Gilly Wings, for the matter.
Pretty much everything else, there’re multiple copies, and the prices drop all the time.
And that’s what happens when you hold a high-end item for too much time instead of 1:1 RMTing it away.
Having two sellers is enough to have competition, which is something RMT removes from the equation. Even if there are no price changes, there’s competition.
And that’s how you affect the economy, although obviously in a lower scale compared to RMTing from bots.
Edit:
It doesnt matter how many giltines or miki +21 7 pots in the market.
The seller’s asking price wont change.
Also if there are so many flooding the market, it will no longer be considered high end
Holding what item for too much time, though?
You aren’t getting any more Gilly Wings anytime.
Also…
1:1 RMT trades do not affect the silver economy.
Let me just borrow my golden ferrari example above. If someone offers me a golden maserati in trade, it does not lower the cash value of the vehicle if I accept the trade.
Edit: Inflation of the economy happens when there is an unchecked currency faucet (See Zimbabwe). The currency itself devalues constantly against other items which hold their ‘value’.
Yeah, it does, the same as anyone running dungeons for silver. I mean…anything you do can be termed as ‘affecting’ the economy.
What this entire thread is about, though, is closing the silver faucet from bots, which causes a general deflation effect. Not targeting specific high-end items for price reduction.
And the ones people had in the past were RMTed away. So you already tainted the economy with illegal transactions even if in a very small fraction.
Removes competition -> affects economy.
How ? Their asking price was 1b or 300 in cash for example.
If they were around they will still be asking for that
Bear in mind gilly wings are 2$ a pop in cash shop to try get one.
Sellers wont be pushing their prices down except for that one or two really desperate ones.
Remember the cost investment ? For giltine wings or +21 miki 7 pot ?
We’re not talking about masi recipes or even golden legend cards in the long term
You’d have 5-10 or more people asking for the same thing and 1-2 players being able to afford. Great scenario for buyers haggling and people undercutting each other, which is natural to happen.
Now if you start taking 3-4 copies from others via RMT, you kill competition, thus affect economy.
Yeah, I do. But we’re talking about RNG here, someone would possibly get it spending ~$50 and sell it cheaper than you who spent $300, that’s how gacha works.
Same goes for +16 and +21 weapons, not all sellers are lucky but some will have reached it with a very low cost and then sell at lower price in a competition without RMT involved.
Those selling cheaper probably already sold them off.
The remaining ones in the market will be based on average cost/risk investment. And in the high end market, the buyers call the shot.
When a high end item is underpriced, buyers will be outbidding each other instead of undercutting until the average price.
Even if someone sells 5 copies velco+21 7 pot weapon today at 300m for example. I am still not selling mine lower than 2b no matter what.
Which is a great example of how economy can be in a natural state if you don’t have someone pulling the items out of it with real money.
Even if there’s no cost change, there are more people selling and silver circulating.
Now start putting 3-5 buyers taking out the items with 1:1 RMT and you break the balance, reduce competition with illicit ways and start making the price follow real life currency rather than silver/items economy only.
You still dont get it.
If others are selling gilly wings or velco+21 7 pots at 300m. Good for them. I assure u there wont be many of them.
However my pricing on these items will never be affected by others.
I will quote @Veldt , and this unchecked currency faucet is bots generating surplus of silver.
They should be the direct focal of the policy instead of deterring RMT buyers. There are ways to get around this.
Limit the excessive amount of bots ( Be it AFK timers on maps, active actions by IMC via player reports )
Myself i am very neutral towards RMT, I dont feel player to player RMT affects the game economy. And will even argue that limited silver RMT is needed to keep the game alive at its current state until further changes are made.
Adjust the silver sinks. The average silver generated by active players per day X cost of silver sinks needs to be looked at. One ichor attempt will cost you about 8.54m and thats excluding the cost of crafting the base item. Even velco rerolls will cost me around 11m±
Im not sure how much the average player generates per day. Myself I pick up about 30m silvers on average if i farm 12hours a day and still i struggle to keep up with the silver sinks.
Reduce the number of RNG gates in the game. It is really sad to see someone put in hours and hours of hardwork to farm 500m silvers to craft an item. And end up being a victim of RNG. Many of which will considering quitting the game.What Nekorin mentioned above might be a solution.
Implement additional features in TP shop to provide more avenues to spend instead of RMT. Whales will always whale. Give them a “legal” way to whale. For now , silvers RMT is the better alternative until bots are killed and silver rates go up. A pay2win debate will be sparked and balance is probably difficult in this.
Personally For me p2win is part of life. Both in game and reality. People spend 6 digits cash in a night just because they can while I cant do the same just because i dont have the ability to do so. I salute them and accept that reality is as such
The thing is that it will. Otherwise you won’t be able to sell them because someone stole your buyers.
If you put RMT into play that changes and this already affects the economy, you don’t need anything more than killing competition and changing the natural flow of these transactions by adding the cash factor - this affects how market and trades works.
No one said that they shouldn’t be the the main focus of the policy.
But having one wrong doesn’t justify the other. The policy should cover everything.
All types for RMT should be punished according, removing illicit gains and banning for a period compatible to the severity of their actions. Bots and bot-RMT buyers of course should have harsher penalties since they also adds inflation into the list of issues.
It will not . Having multiple copies of gilly wings in the market will not affect veldt’s pricing on his gilly wings.
The same will apply to the seller of velco+21 7 pots. If no one meets the asking price there will be no deal.
The way the current policy is, BOTs are not the main focus. In fact the silver seller i chatted with laughed at this policy.
I already gave a situation whereby gilly wings RMT made 3 parties happy.
IMC HAPPY TP bought
Seller HAPPY wings sold
Buyer HAPPY wings bought
White knighting against RMT , especially player to player trading will not improve the overall state of the game in any way. If you are truly concerned about the game, you will agree with me that the main issue on hand is dealing with the excessive bots.
RMT Bots will always exist… it cant be stopped… only slowed down.
That one day when all bots leave the server = Game is dead.
Even silver sellers see no profit here.