Tree of Savior Forum

Policy Update Regarding RMT

Blame the system, not the players. If IMC truly wants to stop RMT, they could have done so many things.
Instead, they keep introducing silver sinks (10m+ silver to reopen a velcoffer cube … that ridiculous RNG on velcoffer gears, etc.) and they keep nerfing players based farming (240k > 80k reward), saalus nerf, etc. Let’s not forget all the ridiculous restrictions for 1:1 trading that makes sooo many people rage quit on the first day.

Nobody wants to see bots running around but like many in this thread have said: “without demand there will be no supply”. Question is, what’s the real demand here? Why do people need soooooooooooooo much silver? Where do you think people spend their silvers that they RMT from? If players are given a choice to spend their cash the “legal” way, I am sure they would. The cash to in game currency ratio just makes 0 sense.

Besides, if you just suck it up and RMT via TP/gach, you are a RMT player. Yes you can tell me all that BS about how you are different as you are supporting the game and actual RMT players who don’t RMT via TP but silver aren’t. At the end of the day sure you are not legally wrong, it just makes you a hypocrite.

4 Likes

Depends. If you visit the Oracle of Delphi by September, she should be able to predict how many diamond anvils you get. Then using that and cross referencing it with your astrology map, you can get with your local financial advisor to see how many loans you should apply for. Then after all of this make sure you put in the correct margin of error for when you get banned for trying to submit a support ticket to raise your tp likit because IMC believes you’re a chinese bot who stole a creditcard through and obscure phishing scam from 2001.

4 Likes

Well said. People are waking up in this game, the vocal majority are actually the minority in the playerbase. Neko summed it all up. Find her post.

The main issue is that every party is in the wrong except for people who honestly farm silver.

Imc released the mother of all silver sinks requiring you to sell your soul to them, bots, or wither away grinding mobs and saalus.

RMTers obliterated the market and created an environment for bots to flurish

GMs haven’t taken economics 101 so their ridiculous tax rates, silver sinks, and income nerfs basically turned the game into 1950s Soviet Union.

Everything pretty snafu tho so I’m just going to popcorn and do what everyone does and sit on what silver I have until every price crashes after they release the next carrot on a stick.

1 Like

You do know that these happened also because player abused it with many alt accounts, right?

FTY.

so agreed… i just hope imc has plan to make better system to us to gain silver without spent so much time farming, and…, tbh, those silver sinking RNG is so unbalance with how much avg player can gain silver, so thats why those gold seller exist…

1 Like

Do you feel better if people call you P2W instead of RMT? If so you can feel free to call yourself that, still RMT in every level.

1 Like

Sorry to disappoint you but I’m poor enough as well not lazy enough - I don’t want to replace progression with money. USD to my currency also doesn’t make these things any cheap. Last time I “supported” the game was buying Hairs on sale.

Now, I have nothing to do with it if you want to pull a strawman calling TP<->Silver RMT so you can, for whatever reason, shift the focus away from people who complain that IMC should not fall to unhealthy milking practices, like, ahem, someone who wrote this:

And I do agree with you that P2WIN things are just as bad as RMT and affects economy as well.

That’s actually most of my posts in this thread if you stop to read them.

Ideally we’d have cash shop only with cosmetic things. That’s not the case and the game already have some P2WIN examples but it’s still not deep down on this path - and I definitely do not want the game to fall there.

And this is the whole reason I’m discussing and voicing my opinions here, so we don’t have a whale-only feedback making STAFFs/Devs think we want their product to follow the wrong path.

2 Likes

Personally I think a much better way to solve this issue is to find ways to decouple the over-reliance of in-game silver in all aspects of the game. One way is to approach gear acquisition and enhancements in a way that rewards players for their effort involved in playing the game and not just throwing in game silver for the upgrades; which BOTs can easily farm and players can easily trade RL cash for.

For example, what if we change how Velcoffer gear is acquired? (Yeah I do know it is too late to implement this for Vel but it can be for future high level content.)

Instead of having players cough out silver to “buy in” for the equipment, have the base equipment available to all the players easily. By easily I mean recipes to such equipment are sold by the NPC and require around 8-10 hours of normal map farming to craft.

The catch here is these equipment have limiters. Things like anvil/transcendance limit, inchor capabilities and set bonuses need to be “unlocked” via equipment upgrades, which require Velcoffer fragments. Like:

  • Increase limit of anvil level by 1 : 1 Fragment (2 fragments for level 11-20)
  • Increase limit of transcendance level by 1 : 1 Fragment
  • Unlock inchor upgrade : 5 Fragment
  • Get a random set bonus : 1 Fragment

Velcoffer gears that receive any form/level of fragment upgrade will be bound to account (can’t be traded). Anvil upgrades of such gear is 100% guaranteed and require the same type of Velcoffer gear to upgrade (which can be easily crafted), with a max of +20.

Velcoffer runs cubes are limited to 2 runs per week per character (same) and cubes can’t be rerolled. Each run yields 2 fragments. Similarly like Saalus, fragments get a diminishing yield when a player runs Velcoffer over 5 characters per weeks.

What this does is while it still require players to spend almost the same amount/if not more time to get a fully upgraded piece of gear, it removes silver from the equation. It rewards players who put in time and effort to acquire and “nuture” their equipment without giving off the feeling that other players can just buy into the same power level as them just by paying RL cash, which is the main source of player discontent against players who RMT.

And it also give players who prefer the $ > time route some leeway too by allowing them to purchase crafted Velcoffer (unupgraded) gear from the market to use as materials for anvil enhancement. They still have to run the dungeon themselves to unlock anvil enhancement levels though.

With end game gear made like this, players have lesser excuse to consider RMT. And IMC has a good way to limit anvil enhancement, remove gears from the game (via bind to account and equipment removal through the “new anvil enhancement”).

@STAFF_Yuri While setting up restrictions to regulate/deter the community not to approach RMT yields results for the short term, do consider the option of using design (via game elements) to lead the community to what you want them to be instead. It is a much harder route to go but it is much more effective.

4 Likes

Yes I agree, to a degree. Does IMC make any money on this new model? We all speak with our hearts, but IMC only speaks in profits and business. IMC has investors who aren’t going to take less profit for the same damn game.

Every single game has rules against RMT; Whether they are truly enforced is another issue. Even a big company like blizzard either chose not to do it, or didn’t manage to do it.

Please reconsider this statement. It is irrelevant. You have already stereotyped RMT as cheaters in all aspects of the game. If we are talking about “abusers”, they might be both RMTer or f2p. At the same time i also can point out that many f2p have used bots or exploits to abuse events.Shall i say f2p is unhealthy too ?
In fact i assure u the extra fat whales and heavy RMT are probably the least likely group to run a bot themselves

It just so happens that the group who RMT the most are the ones who contribute the most to the company’s revenue.

if bots are limited and silver RMT is only available at a very ridiculous prices there will be a swing in the time X money equation. RMT will still go on, but only a small group of rich kids will still find the rates reasonable, while others will find investing time in game more worthwhile.
Honestly, if no one can pay the seller silvers for the item he is selling, he’ll accept cash offers. Especially if its something he spammed real life currency ( eg giltine wings or items crafted via DA from boxes ). RMT between players barely affect the market prices. cant understand why you still have this concept

Well they can finally have more use of the “ET/Velcoffer” bonus run voucher (with full rewards) in letitica cubes for more sales.

Should players want they can just gacha and run 20+ Velcoffer runs daily (courtesy of vouchers) to get the gears. At least it funds IMC instead of BOTs and other players can’t really say much on p2w as they still work for their gear.

I don’t see your point…?

Priority/Frustration list doesn’t mean that anything on the top X isn’t worth spending time on.

Your poll only shows that yes, people don’t like bots/RMT. So does your second poll. Opinion of players on a single matter doesn’t show anything about the overall ranking.

What would be an overall ranking list (example)

  1. RNGhancement system being one of the largest sources of frustration and hair loss.
  2. VGA errors, VGA errors, more VGA errors. A VGA a day keeps ET40 away.
  3. Everyone loves latency issues. Nothing like a 3s delay in CM5 and above.
  4. Less than 10 FPS in town. Whoop dee doo slideshows!
  5. Bots, bots, Tree of Bots.
  6. 2% drop rate and no drops after 500 kills11!1!!1???
  7. Dungeon Leeches & Friends.

All your polls represent is this:
Qn. Is X from above list an issue?
A. Yes.

Using a real life example: Imagine your car is completely borked. The following parts need work
Tyres/Tires (Region spelling)
Air filter
Brakes
Gearbox
Engine oil needs replenishment

Now, as a priority:
1 to 3 is definitely your Tyres/Tires, Brakes, and Gearbox.
4 and 5 is your air filter, and topping off your engine oil.

Your linking and creation of a poll only tells me the following (using an example poll):
Your air filter is dirty. Should you replace your air filter?
Option 1: Definitely!
Option 2: Maybe if I try cleaning the air filter, it’ll work a bit longer?
Option 3: What is an air filter?

It does not tell me anything about its priority.

Note: I’m not a schoolteacher. If someone else can create a better example to replace mine, please do.
:tired:

3 Likes

Sounds like a fair idea to me.
But probably can already foresee a new thread raging over p2win aspects and how it tilts the market

As an addendum to @Nekorin 's ideas, or a modification - using an idea borrowed from Dungeons & Dragons Online.

100% (No RNG) anvil/enhancement upgrades - Locks weapon to character/team

You can sell the upgraded weapon, but you have to -pay TP- (In DDO, they use Astral Shards, cash currency, pretty much).

So yeah, the weapon will still be ‘tradable’ in a sense, and IMC gets a ‘cut’ of the transaction every time.

Which is again the culture I just explained. People feel that putting money = will not get banned because they’re “supporting” the game.

I’m not saying in a generic way but this is definitely observable.

They will definitely accept cash offers if they have the same mentality as yours. I already got offered USD for some items and never accepted even though USD is valued like 3~4 times my currency.

I really can’t understand why you think everyone should be fine with going against terms of service and keeping item’s values insanely high.

If i spent 500 to get my giltine wings or 500 to spam leticia’s to get DA to craft a weapon.
Why should I lower the price tag on my item ?
Are you telling me to lower from 2b to 1.5b for example just because no one can afford to pay for them in silvers?

Exactly.

Unless you prefer to go against terms of service. Is that really this common in SEA servers compared to other servers?

yea rmt tends to be more common in sea server due to the culture there

1 Like