Tree of Savior Forum

Plans for Combat System Changes

News and Announcements
#518

So. Much. This. This NEED to happen for ToS to be truly “Multi Class”. Yes of course the higher-rank skills need to have more damage but not by THAT margin. In my opinion, we should be given the ability to close the gap between high and low rank skills by, I don’t know, speccing stats for specifically one skill for example, or transing and anvil-ing low level unique equipment.

P.S.: Stats should have the same portion of contribution to damage as weapons do. Stats can act as the “poor man’s alternative” but ultimately, stats will hit a cap and it’s okay. Weapons should be more like “sustainable, virtually unlimited, long-term investment, that will not be easily made obsolete by the next patch”.

3 Likes
#519

I would also very much prefer all classes be balanced over a flat hierarchy instead of a stacked hierarchy as of now. Progression doesn’t usually need to mean more damage in skills, players will still take ranking up as unlocking more class choices just fine.

Sure in a flat hierarchy system there will be some problems, like classes which aren’t complete with only circle 1 & 2 will have problems matching the damage output of other circle 3 complete classes.

This can be circumvented by changing the concept in which damage is distributed across the 3 circles. Like for example if a skill A does 100% damage at circle 3

  • Circle 1 (levels 1-5) will contribute 60% of the damage
  • Circle 2 (levels 6-10) 25% of the damage
  • Circle 3 (levels 11-15) last 15% of the damage

Then widen the abilities of skill A as players invest into more circles of a class. Like in circle 2, skill A gains additional bonuses such as ability of inflict debuffs to mobs, or in circle 3 it gains overheats or a different attribute which changes how the skill is used. This makes the skill still look attractive to players even when their damage doesn’t increase proportionally like the earlier circles.

One really good example of bestowing additional abilities instead of damage at higher circles we see in the current ToS is Kabbalist’s Merkabah. The damage caps at level 5 (max level 5 only, circle 1 damage). At Kabbalist circle 2 the skill is granted a series of attributes which fundamentally changes how the skill is used in circle 1, without giving any additional damage.

With all skills developed along the lines of how Merkabah is conceptualised, balancing all classes in a flat hierarchy is possible.

3 Likes
#520

I can’t fully agree on the flat hierarchy system though. Some classes should be locked in later ranks for a good reason, otherwise people who wants to be Cleric 3 can just pick whatever for the rest of the ranks.

High rank class should inherently be more powerful than the earlier ranks that’s for sure. However, lower rank class should be given the option to surpass higher rank class with enough effort. Ideally it might look something like this:

Case 1: A Heal bomber Cleric 3 with Bokor and Krivis as complement during cooldowns
Case 2: A full support full SPR Priest 3 Pardoner 3 with Aspersion and Magic Defense to cover all the bases
Case 3: A zombie doctor with offensive emphasis on Bokor and support only PD

1 Like
#521

In My Opinion, we can implement a new system called:
“Class Specialization System”

As it mean, player can choose to specialize and excel on certain class base on players choice.

For detail, Player will able to obtain “Power Crystal” for every rank up, let say at Rank 8, every player will have 7 Power Crystals.

And in the Character Info UI, Player is able to invest these Power Crystals into the class of choice. So, what these Power Crystal do?

  1. General: Add all Skill Levels +1 for each power-up.
  2. Specific: Pyro will get +5% Fire Damage for each power-up, Warlock will get +10% Dark Damage for each power-up.

Term and Condition
The amount of invest-able Power Crystal also depend on Class Rank, Rank 1 > 7 power-up, Rank 2 > 6 power-up, Rank 3 - 5 power-up, and so on. Of course, higher rank will have better specific bonuses. OR just a flat maximum of 3

And, what great is that, these Power Crystal should be able to adjust/reinvest on Weekly basis or with Reset button that have a cooldown of 24*7 Hours. This will give a higher freedom for character to customize the power of their character, as said 2 Pyromancer C3 could be different due to different on Power Crystals investment.

1 Like
#522

how about no
sounds like a totally different game

1 Like
#523

The new “firebomb” Fireball that hits only once even in lv15 is not a good idea IMC, just saying.
Sages cant duplicate the fireball if it explodes in contact. Not every Pyromancer 3 is linker, have this in mind. (:

But if you keep it like this, hitting only once. I suggest you add some 3 ~ 5 extra overheat in Fireball skill.

:blowfish:

1 Like
#524

Actually, there is no need for that. They got rid of the skill dmg variable; they are using now formulas that supposedly only take into consideration stats, level and weapon… By using that system you can easily balance ALL classes and ranks. They just want to stick with the detrimental hierarchical high rank priority approach. Why? Well, I think because they lack insight and wisdom and think that giving high rank classes priority will make the users have a “goal” and keep going on the linear, unknown, shiet-festa. If only
they used their brains and actually made the game what gave it hype, momentum and users (class variety and possibilities) by making ALL classes relevant with the same logic, system, algorithm and dmg formula previously described on this patch (Level, stats, gear), we would experience the birth of THE MMO (WITH PLAYERS) THAT BROKE THE SHIETTY META that WoW established.

Users would still have to level, grind, get gear and spend time in the game in order to increase the efficiency of their favorite class, and unlock new classes that can support or improve your effectiveness in PVE/PVP… Or leave it like that, I’m sure there might be a FEW who enjoy linear, unpredictable crap besides the ones hooked at WoW, of course.

For those scared of this because of classes (ARCHER, SWORD MAN, WIZ, CLERIC) with a lot of spammeable skills, let me be clear with you, they can’t spam multiple skills at the same time by normal means, so this is not an issue.

3 Likes
#525

Well the other way arround would have been to make higher classes with stronger factor, but having the cooldown increase forcefully with a good ratio so everything is equal too. (Like it felt like arround rank 6 at cbt2, where most classes for example cataphract had bigger dmg skills with 2/3 times the cooldown).
But yeah, if they could understand people would have more fun playing the chars like they’d find it the coolest, and be as revelant as any other build that would be great.
For example, one of my char is Pyro 2 - Cryo 3 - Rune Caster - Sage.
I wanted that nearly since cbt2 + the announce of sage, not because agny etc made it OP.
I wanted a Fire-Ice type of char, and then i had the idea of getting Rune Caster to buff the ice part, and later the Sage part to buff the pyro part.

If people can play how they want, with everything being balanced, that’s how you will get the biggest playerbase of the time i think, because people would all say “THIS IS THE BEST GAME FOR PLAYERS”

Also not with a “pay to win better pet / enchant on hats”. Their best mean to get money would have been the costumes + those slots of chars. If you could get the animation/stances of a costume just by having it in your inventory, people would tend to get more 3rd circles costumes + get the costume (normal, circle 3 or another special tp costumes) for the fashion arround the char. ^^

1 Like
#526

oh wtf, just let us get more than 3 circles and spend more than 15 points into a skill.

#527

There is a reason that WOW did it this way. Players like to have a sense of progression, that their character is getting stronger.

If you want to sacrifice damage for utility in earlier ranks, then you are welcome to do so. The old beta model of TOS actually prohibited you from going to previous ranks, so they already addressed your concern.

#528

Does anyone of you understand the class system in TOS? It’s not a question of chosing a class but rather chosing an specific playing/battle style in which you exploit the skill sets of classes. If you want to play a character as a monk than you have the choice between monk c1, c2 and c3, but playing a monk doesn’t have to end with this. Maybe some skills of Sadhu class fits to your understanding of playing a monk and your playing style. If IMC were interested in a focus on the classes, they had designed the whole system differently. Maybe choosing a class at the start point and (nothing).

As long the player are close minded like this, just thinking in terms of prescribed classes, ToS won’t work out perfectly. I had so far no problems to realise an idea of a character. For this reason do not blame IMC.

1 Like
#529

Exactly. There was a monk in Klaipeda that went Sadhu for the out of body just so they could transport themselves across the arena faster.

Ventis or Ventas I believe, and it was legit threatening to fight since he would be in your face right at the start of the match.

Clever people will find the class balance that works for them, and dull people will try to find cookie-cutters.

5 Likes
#530

Sadhu/Monk was a pretty valid thing talked about before in the Sadhu thread because OOB debuffs defense. It just is plagued by bugs and long animation problems. If they fixed those and gave it proper scaling then it might still stand a chance.

There’s lots of other things like Kaloo hammer too which could be great but just scale poorly.

1 Like
#531

Sadhu’s Astral Body Explosion actually deals quite good damage though.

OOB does need some additional help, especially in the defense department. If not then remove/reduce the cast time to make it a really good movement/positioning skill. So we can play sadhu like Starcraft Protoss Adepts with their Psionic transfers. :3

1 Like
#532

Honestly I never understood the hate on some sadhu skills. Possession is really strong given that it is both a damage and a root, yes you have to channel it but it isn’t just damage like other ground AoE skills.

OOB itself is lackluster, but as I mentioned it can be used as a psuedo ‘snap’ ability to move across a pvp arena quickly.

Vashida is pretty bad now, but after the stat change it will be pretty debilitating.

ABE was good as a knockdown to get players out of safety zones or other protections. The damage boost will help it.

I’ve never seen Transmit in actual gameplay so i can’t comment on it… :X

#533

I think it is due to the players’ perception of a Red icon class, since IMC depicted red icon classes as dpsers. Red classes (dps) are often perceived with being able to deal higher damage as compared to the green (support) counterparts, in pve or pvp.

Unfortunately, the red icon Sadhu pales in comparison with the other cleric classes, whether it in pve or pvp. Even the green icon Plague Doctor outclass it in both pve/pvp aspects. Sadhu imo should be a green icon class though, since its abilities are more utility than dps focused now.

Vashida will be really great if it can be channeled while moving in OOB form. It will serve as a good turret based debuffer in parties.

3 Likes
#534

Yeah the whole color icons are a mystery to me sometimes.

For example, Kino being red…well. I guess back when the game was released gravity pole was really high damage, but now it is nerfed. Perhaps they could be interpreted this way.

Red = Offensive
Blue = Defensive
Green = Utility
White = Merchant

I.e. you can be an offensive class but not a ‘dps’ class.

1 Like
#535

This all has been some major salt factors from me personally in the Sadhu thread with class coloring, scaling, buggy and long animations. They freed them from bubble status a while ago but OOB/Sadhu biggest problem is actually the existence of Priest/Chaplain comparatively in support damage through buffs.

They need to make Sadhu play more fluidly then fix the damage compared to everything else because that is mostly all they have to consider.

1 Like
#536

Thanks for clarifying this upcoming change.
I thought low-rank and high-rank meant the class circles for some reason.

Planned on playing after this update, but it’s clear it’s still vacant of true variety. Heaven forbid you actually like several low rank kits; they’re objectively inferior with this hierarchy system.

#537

Maybe they could start adding more colors