Tree of Savior Forum

Plans for Combat System Changes

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#586

[quote=“emilianotanchico, post:561, topic:353826, full:true”]
If Swordsmen want to hit more and faster, allocate more points in DEX but their damage could be lower because of lack of STR so that finally Mages can start acting like real Mages and Swordsmen can start being proper tanks.
[/quote]As a new player to ToS, this is honestly one thing I find extremely disturbing and imbalanced about this game; and its a trend that I’ve observed over the years in other games to a degree.

Mages [in some games] are too durable in that they can stand in front of a melee monster without fear of being killed in a few hits and nuke it dead in seconds. There’s really no sense of danger nor strategy involved when you don’t have to worry about constant casting interruptions and keeping yourself as far as possible from potential, deadly threats.

#587

Cata, Sahdu and Templar R.I.P

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#588

Nothing to worry about, we’re all excited for this update.

These updates are going to be applied to our kTOS test server in April of 2017, and will likely arrive in iTOS in the early summer of 2017. We’ll make sure to announce any further details or modifications as they come up.

I suspect late June or early July. Seeing how implementation goes on KTEST, KTOS, and possibly JTOS will be a good indication on when it will arrive here.

#589

And then, DPS swordsman classes will never be viable until they have an overpowered burst skill (exemple : live Dethrone) because unlike mages, glasscanon swordsman will not have the advantage of the range, for a lot of builds, they will not have the advantage of wearing a shield (so in fact they will be squishier than mages) and they will also have lower utility / control diversity for similar to lower damages.

#590

But Swordsmen has like double the base hp to Wizards, so its not really the same…

The shield part is true though, but that’s just how it is with games where a classes skills are based off a specific off hand. Only thing they can really do is make it so certain Wizard classes requires a Dagger or some new off hand like a tome.

Thing is though, nearly every Swordsmen class was designed to deal damage while more than half the Wizard classes are designed to support (thankfully with proper scaling that is finally changing).

I’m really excited for these changes, wizard has suffered since rank 9 release. Game will finally be a little more balanced.

#591

Just a quick question? Why is Archer still so close up to Cleric?
Cleric is ± point blank melee for nearly every Class and skill, thus needs to take way more damage, thus should be closer to Swordsman than to Archer when it comes to HP gain per CON.

HP gain for Cleric should be 1 CON = 60 HP, 10 CON = 240 HP.
I wouldn’t mind if IMC adds more HP gain for Swordsman to counterbalance that[ e.g. 1 CON= 75 HP, 10 CON = 300 HP], just keep in mind to leave the difference between Cleric[= melee] and Archer[= ranged] larger than the current version.

The base difference pre-balance patch was already quite bad (Cleric factor 1,5 vs. Archer factor 1,4 per level) and in favor of the Archers. Melee characters should have potentially more HP than ranged characters because they are exposed to more threat&potential damage staying near to the enemy <_<

#592

They probably did it because clerics can heal themselves, and don’t have to take direct damage some times and they have the best buffs.

#593

Clerics don’t have the best buffs [that’s the Wizards now], but let’s not get into too much detail on this.
Yes, Clerics can heal themselves and they have several skills to negate damage, but guess what? Archers also have skills to negate damage [e.g. Deploy Pavise, Hanging Shot and Camouflage] and they have skills to increase their attack range.
They also have companion riding Classes to increase their mobility and nearly no skills with a short range [few exceptions exists like Musketeers Butt Stroke, Rogues Backstab and Sappers traps e.g.], meaning that even though Clerics have damage mitigation and healing skills, an Archer normally doesn’t even get hit while the Cleric must take hits once his mitigation skills are on CD…

This makes me wonder why Clerics have so much less HP gain compared to Swordsman[ Swordsman has 1,25 times the Clerics HP gain from CON] while Cleric has not so much more [only 1,14 times the amount Archers gain] in comparison.
Archers and Wizards are close in HP gain, which makes sense since they’re both ranged Class-trees, but Clerics being closer to Archers than Swordsmen makes no sense, considering that even the magic skills of Cleric are mostly melee-ranged…

#594

As a “main archer”(ha ha ha), I must say: Yes! Finally I’m gonna kick some cleric asses!

OK, just kidding.
Clerics should have more Hp indeed.
But, I didn’t get why mages are so close up too.

#595

lol no no get into detail for sure on the skills, ausrine, bloodletting, safety zone, monstrance, aspersion, revive, stone skin, sterea troph, prophecy, counter spell, and the list keeps going. Every cleric will have at least 1 of these.
EVERY cleric can heal them self, not every archer has quarrel shooter, hanging shot, camo. Attack range is nice, it you’re not getting hit by a ranged mob.
With the exception of monk, sadhu and maybe inquisitor or something, most cleric classes can use magic circle damage skills and still kite around mobs if needed and if they do get hit, just heal the damage bk and safety zone or something. Then you have plague doctor which is DoT/HoT king in many situations. Compared to swordsman who have to face tank and with no heals I don’t mind Clerics having lower HP at all. Unless IMC hits Clerics with huge nerfs on their support skills, I don’t expect them to have super HP unless its a kabbalist.

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#596

Not every cleric has

ausrine, bloodletting, safety zone, monstrance, aspersion, revive, stone skin, sterea troph, prophecy, counter spell

as well. If you are going to list off cleric skills that negate damage, don’t be surprised when people do the same for archers. =P

#597

lol remi xD still clerics dnt need all that HP
and still once you’re playing a cleric, you’ll always have at least 1 way of negating damage. that was my point
@Remiri now come in game and buff my squire with divine might please lol

#598

Can’t I am at work, shhh.

#599

darn :frowning:oh lemme duel you when you come back from work :stuck_out_tongue: the murm

#600

One question: Miko Clap skill now works with magic circles? Because at this moment only works for Diev carved statues.

#601

Ok, first thing to mention:
Most of those Cleric damage mitigation skills [i.e. e.g. Safety Zone, Foretell, Sterea Troph] are not buffs but magic circles with beneficial effects. You still get knocked down or knocked back and once you’re out of their AoE, you don’t have any beneficial effect at all.

The only exemptions of that are Ausrines invulnerability effect and Golden Bell Shields invulnerability during channeling.

However, in contrast to Archer, except for Safety Zone and Counter Spell all of these useful mitigation skills require Circle 2 or Circle 3 investment to unlock them.
Archer just needs 1 Circle in a Class to unlock them.
e.g. you could make Archer2>QuarrelShooter1>Scout1 and have 2 skills to avoid physical damage. Or Archerx>x>Scout1>x>Falconer1.

2nd thing to mention: Every Class can heal themselves with potions.
The new potions heal a suitable amount so that you can survive even reckless gameplay if your equipment is good enough.
Heal is mostly a damaging skill with potentially one of the highest damages Clerics can get, so why waste it for your HP when potions do an equally good job?

Btw, Classes like Alchemist (creates potions) and Featherfoot[leeches enemies’ HP] can also provide stable heals for Wizards.

Last but not least:

The difference I stated as a suggested change would be 840 HP more for 150 CON.
I Don’t understand why people would argue with buffs and damage mitigation if the difference allows for 2-4 more hits to be taken PVE-wise before you die.

Btw, the nerf of Aspersions defence boost to a flat value that’s boosted by level and SPR will definetly take its toll in increased overall damage, so improved HP-gain via CON for Cleric[and maybe for Swordsman,too] would definetly be more advantageous.

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#602

If you buff defense, HP, and mitigation too much then you risk having matches that never end, or always get timed out.

#603

To be fair, every cleric does have access to safety zone, its c1 afterall.

Not to mention that it’s common to see builds with cleric2.
No other class has that luxury to spend 2 first ranks for something as good as safety wall.

On the bright side there are still ways to counter it in pvp i guess.

#604

If potions do such a “good job”… why are we even having this lil chat? :joy: You want more HP for it to be aesthetically pleasing?

Anyway, swords get more hp cuz they face tank always, no choice, clerics will have less cuz hp they can heal and can block some damage, wizards and archers can kite for the most part. That’s all there is to it. I’m done, have a good day.

#605

It would be quite a good things in Combat Changes if FF started to be able to absorb HP from players when used in PvP ;-;

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