Just like others who have 200+ characters can disagree.
How does that refute/support anything said in the previous post?
And to note, even if you agree with some of his points. Like if the game has glitches or feels incomplete that just should verify that it isnt bad or it sucks.
Top of that the dude only talks about grinding a lot. When it isnt a complete grind at all. Unless he counts doing quests as grinding?
"That grinding is the heart of Tree of Savior wonât be a surprise to anyone familiar with its spiritual predecessor Ragnarok Online, the long-running Korean MMORPG"
You cant really compare the grind between this game. I played RO too. Before Renewal. Played a Sniper. Played a Scholar, and High Priest. QUests arnt entirely visible in that game. And they provide no hints of your next destination which makes them entirely inefficient.
"With over 80 different classes, Tree of Savior offers one of the most robust progression systems Iâve ever seenâbut learning its ins and outs has been as painful as fun."
The dude felt it was a task to begin with in learning about his options.
"Fully exploring maps or collecting specific items dropped from monsters can also net you bonuses like extra experience or permanent stat increases from NPCs in each town. While I played mostly aloneâŚ"
The dude identified he played an MMORPG by himself. Yea people do that but is this really quality work of someone reviewing an MMORPG?
"Unfortunately, much of that potential is wasted on poor class balancing. Not every option you choose will be viable, and in true old school RPG fashion, itâs possible to ruin your build if you donât know what youâre doing."
Class balancing can be said with any mmorpg. Very seldom one is balanced when one is complaining their class is to weak. Specially when the game requires you to be social and utilize each others skills in synergy. Which he wouldnt know that because he played alone.
"While some might praise this aspect of Tree of Savior as hardcore, Iâd argue itâs simply unfun and needlessly punishing. There are truly original ideas behind some classes, like alchemists being able to âawakenâ an itemâs potential by braving a special dungeon or squires being able to set up vendor stalls in town to repair equipment. But one wrong move or one unfavorable balance update and all those hours invested in building them could be wasted."
I agreed with this a lot in fact i talk to people about it. But I anticipate that he came into the game with no pre-determined idea of what kind of character he wanted to be.
He continues to talk about himself as a grinder.
He shows his hoplight with lv 5 Syncrho Thrusting which is like a huge NO. So he honestly doesnt know anything about this game. He picked that skill over stabbing. So his lack of time invested into learning what is good for himself questions his validity of if the game is good. It explains what he previously wrote, and he came into the game expecting it to be like Ragnarok mixed with the classic expectation of an MMO.
Unstable server connection mentioned which is a given for any new MMORPG. Which if you take game design classes, there is a trend for newer MMOs to release early so they can continue funding the project. Which goes to show about a lot of the issues that happened in the game now. Like the guild abolishing exploit. Lag. Optimization Issues. Arena, Guild Events, and Companions arnt available. All because they decided to release early. Due to a lack of funds. Doesnt make the game bad. Just makes the choice to release bad.
" With such a singular focus on grinding, Tree of Savior sometimes displays a real mastery of what can make that grind fun."
Def not a singular focus on grinding⌠he would know if he experienced it. He didnt even mention much about EXP Cards which is unique in this game to give those as usable rewards instead of straight away. Where you can actually efficiently level through decision and timing.
"Tree of Saviorâs biggest grind lies in chipping away all of its flaws just to experience its nostalgic charms."
See here, he made his first character crappy with no little consideration for what his skills do. He pumped his crappiest class skill to 5 without considering at lv1, is this good? Certainly the game is nostalgic because of the character styles and vast class variety. Its def not like Ragnarok other then that. Maybe even some grindy elements. But really alot of games have grind. MapleStory had grind, variety of classes. Tricksters Online had grind and a variety of classes.
He makes a flashy wizard, which are known to be super strong at lower levels. Verified his level brackets.
He didnt get passed rank 3. Which After rank 4-5 is pretty much where the game gets a whole new perspective of content.
He reviewed nothing on the hidden content and unmarket quests. Which is another part of TOS.
He probably did nothing of the adventures journal.
I dunno. It just seemed like something he was told to do. Maybe it wasnt genuine interest in Tree of SaviorâŚ
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Yes?
a new player shouldnât have to scout the forums and wiki pages to find out that the servers are really unstable, the game is poorly optimized, that Hunter and Sorcerer summonsâ AIs were really really bad, that if they donât pick Peltasta at some point parties wonât want them, etc.
hell, the technical issues shouldnât even be there in the first place. whatâs worse, a new player scouting the forums for hours to learn about all the issues, or going in blindly, learning of them, and then maybe quitting? it certainly wonât take them 100 levels for the latter scenario to happen.
In his defense: itâs his job, he probably had a deadline. Donât expect much.
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yea it kind of starting to consider this lol
Like I said, a new player should know what heâs getting into.
Letâs say I like FPS, but ONLY the type of FPS where character progression is permanent and gives some permanent stat/skill bonus, an advantage like planetside 2.
I buy CoD, where progression is in customization, unlocks and weapon types, but not the kind of stat bonus I want.
Can I complain that CoD sucks because itâs not what I like?
Or is it my fault for not researching what Iâm throwing my time/money at?
Your scenario doesnât really compare in any way to that reviewerâs situation. he didnât go into ToS expecting TERA. He apparently knew what ToS was when going in, but didnât like how things were handled, technically and design-wise.
A closer analogy would be to say that, in CoD, you see a cool gun that you want, and its stats donât look too bad when compared to the others. and if you unlock it, you have no way of going back or unlocking other guns. after 100 hours you get it, and when you use it, it actually turns out it has horrible spread or rate of fire that isnât mentioned anywhere in the game except for a wiki, and these other guns are much better. so youâre either stuck with that forever, or you restart.
now take that one awful gun and make it 40% of the guns in the game. that is called a design flaw. you shouldnât have to read a wiki to know to stick to the strong meta or be literally worthless for the rest of your time playing. it can definitely be fixed, as I hope it will in ToSâ case, but it will definitely suck for whoever was involved, and through no fault of their own, so they reserve total right to complain about it if they want.
Did he know what to expect, really?
Take a look at this post that points out many flaws on the review: PC Gamer Review: 58/100 - "One nostalgia trip you might want to skip"
I beg to differ.
People should stop comparing this game with RO. The only in common is the art style in some degree.
IMC was founded in 2003. RO was released in 2002 (in 2003 the last update was WOE and Juno I think). Hakkyu Kim and the others devs who created this game just were the lead developers of the original RO. Also, even RO was caught by the âMMO Standardâ and dropped a lot of the original things in renewal.
why is the rating soo high⌠did that guy even play the game, in current state.
[quote=âEter_Nale, post:83, topic:260782, full:trueâ] every class is viable, i think its just about preferences.
[/quote]
Nope, the game is poorly balanced atm, grind to lvl 220+ then you will understand
It will be true when the game get more contents and balance update. But right now it isnât.
look at most crafting classes, especially Alchemist, most of them stop at lvl 220, they donât have much useful skills for combat scenarios.
tldr; on topic: itâs just one of the many comprehensive reviews out there, including those in steam. reviews wonât matter if there are people who still want to play the game. author took a stand itâs up to the readers to agree/disagree, doesnât change the fact that ToS is NOT the best rated/critically acclaimed MMORPG currently available on the market, yet hundreds still pay for the game.
just as OP said, author went in the game as an average gamer, he didnât seem to have tried CBT so obviously he didnât know any better. the constant bugs/glitches/lag didnât help, and that was sad, end of story.
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I wonât stop.
Construtive feedback is plain different from brats whinning why to grind in a grindy game.
I would say YOU to stop rotulating people as white knights. Iâm not doing such a thing, and if you read carefully, what iâm talking is exactly like this:
1- Play the game for â â â â â sake
2- Did you enjoy? Give your construtive feedback.
3- Didânt you enjoy? Give your constructive feedback.
4- Still didnât enjoy and nothing happened? Quit, nobody is forcing you to play.
5- Move on, try the next one.
Whinning all the time wonât help anything, neither make IMC prioritise stuff better. Iâm a programmer, and what the brats needs to learn is:
1- Youâre not smarter than the developers.
2- Developers arenât dumb.
You might ask, why in hell some bad decisions or clear mistakes do happen?
First, people need to understand that IMC is NOT a big game developer. Theyâre just a small company, taking high risks with huge projects.
With that said, with such a huge game like Tree of Savior, itâs easy to lose track of something.
I find it disrespectful to call IMC a bunch of lazy people that is ignoring the Forums. Didnât you guys ever considered they might be all focused on getting stuff done?
IMC, as a small company, needs guidance, not constant, brat like whinning.
Rest assured, they know that their game is NOT optmized, they know that their game have huge aumont of bugs, they know their game has lots of server instability, also, they know that they policies arenât the best ones.
I find it quite funny to see people entitled to considers themselves above the designers, programmers, artists, etc.
If anyone doesnât have anything better to say: Server is lagging, game is broken, game lacks optmization and the game is bad - be honest, taste a bit of reality check, youâre being just rendudant as everyone else.
I bet what IMC needs is anything that could guide them to solve things.
Why the game lacks optmizations? What could be done to solve this? What tecnology and technique could be applied to boost the game performance?
Why their servers are instable? What could be done in order to improve that? Which areas, maps, channels that are suffering the most?
Why their policies are wrong, how you think it might affect the game sales, and what could be done to make the TP shop fair to everyone?
See? You guys could do it better. Whatâs the use of brats constantly repeating themselves:
Pay2Win, Game is broken, unbalanced, cashgrab, servers sucks, grinding is bad in a grinding game, etc.
To me it sounds like useless whinning that wonât get you, neither IMC, anywhere.
Donât expect IMC giving priority to whinning. I bet they would do for constructive feedback, that could make them think twice while doing something again, and help them to find the better solution faster.
And, like iâve said - if you feel entitled to bash a small company like IMC, just feel entitle to quit and play something much better, from much bigger companies. Iâm sure there are a crapton of good games out there.
Theyâre not working for free. Actually, good developers cost a lot of money, yet people thinks that the game should be free, easy, casual as â â â â .
If you like the concept of the game and want the to see if IMC will deliver the potential of the game, give them a chance, support them and be patient. If not, just go away an let them fail for being just another developer that gives zero â â â â â for the players and their supporters.
6 Likes
IMC seems to give zero â â â â â as well, considering they have ~0 income at the moment by neglecting to open up TP sales.
Tree of Savior itself is not that bad, but the way itâs being executed is. Most of the problems that people are complaining about could be addressed better. This game has great potential.
I remember when Elder Scrolls Online first came out 2 years ago and it was horrible. But the devs fixed almost everything that people hated and now the game is great. Thereâs also practically no gold sellers because nearly all the gold sinks are things you can also optionally buy in the cash shop.
Well we will see most mmos fail because the patience for a not working product is thin âŚ
A lot of game with potential âŚ
Whatâs wrong with playing a game that makes you excited to go home quickly, switch on your gaming PC/laptop and log on to be greeted with the lovely TREE OF SAVIOR icon. Then logging on discord and be greeted by your friends that youâve made in the game along the way and do stuff together or just talk about life while youâre completing Hunts/exploration and grinding for certain items?
It has been some time that a game was able to hold onto my attention and I was spending most of it in MUD games. Why publicize the negatives of a game that you donât exactly like? Just move on and play something else, donât even come back to the forums. It just makes it seem like a stalking/bitter ex-partner who just⌠wasnât satisfied and feeling jealousy that they have moved on to continue dating?
Itâs my duty as the voice of this community to protect unsuspecting gamers from wasting their time.
Game best description would be âCasual Grinder MMOâ
It FEELS closer to a cellphone tap game than to a proper MMO.
This game could improve so much just with small â â â â like displaying the proper damage formula on extended info on skills, which could be done in a day or two by 1 person.
But developers seem to have their hands so full, that I wonder if they even have the manpower needed for a MMO this big.
I understand your post was not addressed to me, but I just like to point out what you wrote:
I agree about the part that the company is new, possibly made up of few people, but I donât agree that (if my understanding of what youâre implying here is correct) as a company of professionals, in order to establish themselves, they expect their customers âto guide them to solve thingsâ especially if they have never expressed the exact sentiment.
what Iâm saying here is, youâre painting a picture that IMC is such noobs at this industry they still need people butting in order to do their job. I believe however, that theyâre old enough to edit:know what theyâre doing, yet theyâre lacking skill or resource to provide the best solution. so yeah, reviewers and gamers alike have a reason not to award them a medal at this time.